a few words that may be of interest to fellow sufferers

nick55

I have modified this post, I was saying something about swine flue as I have some very strong views on this and wanted others to consider the issues for themselves, but have decided it is best to suggest a very good website with a lot of information on it, which is NHS direct. Also the BBC website is very good.

I have posted on them both so will say nothing else, as I do not wish to cause worry to others. But do suggest we all make our own decision based on our own research on all this and think this out for ourselves. the web has some very good resources, some of it is silly nonsense some makes you think about these things which is good.

I hope this winter we all manage our arthritic condition and have nothing to complicate it in any way, so, free your mind from worry as worry is the worst medicine of all, and does no one any good, and let us hope summer soon comes back,

best wishes,

Nick

joyful164

My OH and me are going for our flu jabs in a couple of weeks. For us and many who message on this forum have underlying health issues which necessitate being vaccinated.

Joy

nick55

I am sure that is fine, but there us always room for thought. those who need the vaccine should have it by all means, it may well be a good thing, again consider the issue -- so long as one does not worry about it. no one knows who is right in all this not even the so called experts. I am sure you will be fine and the advice given is correct,
my intent is simply to give people something to think on this impending issue and decide for themselves , that is all,

best wishes,

nick

joyful164 wrote:

My OH and me are going for our flu jabs in a couple of weeks. For us and many who message on this forum have underlying health issues which necessitate being vaccinated.

Joy

nick55

reply,
I emphasize, I am only giving information and ideas, so those reading this may become more thoughtful and informed. i realize there is a possibility if causing worry , I do not wish that to happen but there is nothing to worry about, but it is a good thing to be able to make ones own judgment sometimes in these matters of our own health.
If you have a perpetually open mind as I have nothing can ever cause you any worry. my own views may be quite wrong in any case, who knows???

Nick

nick55 wrote:

I am sure that is fine, but there us always room for thought. those who need the vaccine should have it by all means, it may well be a good thing, again consider the issue -- so long as one does not worry about it. no one knows who is right in all this not even the so called experts. I am sure you will be fine and the advice given is correct,
my intent is simply to give people something to think on this impending issue and decide for themselves , that is all,

best wishes,

nick

joyful164 wrote:

My OH and me are going for our flu jabs in a couple of weeks. For us and many who message on this forum have underlying health issues which necessitate being vaccinated.

Joy

venita

joyful164 wrote:

My OH and me are going for our flu jabs in a couple of weeks. For us and many who message on this forum have underlying health issues which necessitate being vaccinated.

mrsdalloway

Hi I asked this question of my rheumy nurse and she said that we wouldn't be entitled to the vaccine. When I questioned well what about reduced immune system she just gave me an information sheet which didn't answer the question either. So I just assumed that having RA and being on anti-tnf didn't put me in the 'need' category. But I understand what Nick is saying I would also like to throw something into the pot a) if this is a virus how have they managed to make tablets to help? as I have had 'viruses' in the past and they have said there is nothing they can give to help. b) to my mind there has not been enough testing of the vaccine to know that it is safe, so I am with Nick on that one. Also, last point how do they know figures for swine flu? As far as I am aware if you have symptoms you ring a number and they take your details over the phone. Now correct me if I am wrong how are they differentiating from normal flu? are swabs being taken when tamiflu is give out? Therefore, how can they accurately predict the numbers? All food for thought. But as previously said everyone should make there own mind up on the subject.

nick55

there are suspicions they have stopped counting in the States and many figures they come out with are propaganda or mere supposition. it may be like that in this country soon.

logic states unless you have a specific laboratory test to see which flue strain you have no one knows. my point is, if the two strains are the same in virulence , surely we should have all been vaccinated for common flue on the same basis?
so much of this vaccination question seems either ominous or simply has no sense to it.
And common sense seems to have gone out of the door. unless of course, the governments of the world know something we don't know??

again look at the facts, do a google on it, but be careful believing too much about what you read. just make an informed decision based on logic.

mrsdalloway wrote:

Hi I asked this question of my rheumy nurse and she said that we wouldn't be entitled to the vaccine. When I questioned well what about reduced immune system she just gave me an information sheet which didn't answer the question either. So I just assumed that having RA and being on anti-tnf didn't put me in the 'need' category. But I understand what Nick is saying I would also like to throw something into the pot a) if this is a virus how have they managed to make tablets to help? as I have had 'viruses' in the past and they have said there is nothing they can give to help. b) to my mind there has not been enough testing of the vaccine to know that it is safe, so I am with Nick on that one. Also, last point how do they know figures for swine flu? As far as I am aware if you have symptoms you ring a number and they take your details over the phone. Now correct me if I am wrong how are they differentiating from normal flu? are swabs being taken when tamiflu is give out? Therefore, how can they accurately predict the numbers? All food for thought. But as previously said everyone should make there own mind up on the subject.

nick55

may I offer this very informative link, again I ask anyone reading this to make their own minds up, not based on worry or fear but on sound reasoning...

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=801:andrew-johnson-reports-on-his-reponses-from-uk-government-bodies-on-qswine-fluq&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en

nick55 wrote:

there are suspicions they have stopped counting in the States and many figures they come out with are propaganda or mere supposition. it may be like that in this country soon.

logic states unless you have a specific laboratory test to see which flue strain you have no one knows. my point is, if the two strains are the same in virulence , surely we should have all been vaccinated for common flue on the same basis?
so much of this vaccination question seems either ominous or simply has no sense to it.
And common sense seems to have gone out of the door. unless of course, the governments of the world know something we don't know??

again look at the facts, do a google on it, but be careful believing too much about what you read. just make an informed decision based on logic.

mrsdalloway wrote:

Hi I asked this question of my rheumy nurse and she said that we wouldn't be entitled to the vaccine. When I questioned well what about reduced immune system she just gave me an information sheet which didn't answer the question either. So I just assumed that having RA and being on anti-tnf didn't put me in the 'need' category. But I understand what Nick is saying I would also like to throw something into the pot a) if this is a virus how have they managed to make tablets to help? as I have had 'viruses' in the past and they have said there is nothing they can give to help. b) to my mind there has not been enough testing of the vaccine to know that it is safe, so I am with Nick on that one. Also, last point how do they know figures for swine flu? As far as I am aware if you have symptoms you ring a number and they take your details over the phone. Now correct me if I am wrong how are they differentiating from normal flu? are swabs being taken when tamiflu is give out? Therefore, how can they accurately predict the numbers? All food for thought. But as previously said everyone should make there own mind up on the subject.

woodbon

Hi, I've not had a flu jab as oA isn't one of the listed groups, my husband has his tomorrow, but its only the ordinary flu, as here at least, swine flu vac isn't yet available. I had the jab last year and every year since working with elderly and disabled. It was arranged by the council who employed me. We didn't have to have it, but we could. I had it because I had a severe strain of flu years ago and was so ill for a long time (about 3 weeks, but felt like 3 months!) Also, my work would involve me caring for elderly people, some of whom could't be vaccinated themselves for medical reasons. It really can be a serious illness for very old, ill people and lead on to hospitalisation and be the last straw for them.

Nick, if you think its wrong, thats OK, as everyone must make up their own minds, not follow blindly, I know that their are good reasons for letting nature take its course, group immunity and all that, I'm going to read your NHS link, although I think I may have seen it. Swine flu is, at the moment, a white elephant for most people and has been very mild for people round here and they really have had it as the boarding school that my husband works at tests the ill children. So, thank God for that! Love Sue

nick55

it all comes down to this, Sue, if we get swine flue, first, unless we are laboratory tested for it, it is guess work. then, the bodies immune system is far better at handling it than by injecting poisons, or taking tablets which are also poisons.

the common sense way is to take Vitamin D3 and C and stay healthy. it is a serious issue though for those who are vulnerable but my focus is on the rest who have normal robust health. i would be concerned that those with arthritis may make it worse by affecting their immune responses to the vaccine.
my own choice is to steer well clear of it, please read my posts on NHS direct,

best wishes,

nick

woodbon wrote:

Hi, I've not had a flu jab as oA isn't one of the listed groups, my husband has his tomorrow, but its only the ordinary flu, as here at least, swine flu vac isn't yet available. I had the jab last year and every year since working with elderly and disabled. It was arranged by the council who employed me. We didn't have to have it, but we could. I had it because I had a severe strain of flu years ago and was so ill for a long time (about 3 weeks, but felt like 3 months!) Also, my work would involve me caring for elderly people, some of whom could't be vaccinated themselves for medical reasons. It really can be a serious illness for very old, ill people and lead on to hospitalisation and be the last straw for them.

Nick, if you think its wrong, thats OK, as everyone must make up their own minds, not follow blindly, I know that their are good reasons for letting nature take its course, group immunity and all that, I'm going to read your NHS link, although I think I may have seen it. Swine flu is, at the moment, a white elephant for most people and has been very mild for people round here and they really have had it as the boarding school that my husband works at tests the ill children. So, thank God for that! Love Sue

nick55

sorry to mislead you the link is not NHS direct but to Jane Burgermeisters site. she is a rebel and is taking on the pharmaceuticals. her site has a lot of interesting things to say, but again nake your own judgment.
my NHS direct link is here;
NHS direct link
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/04April/Pages/Swineflulatest.aspx#comment3396

woodbon wrote:

Hi, I've not had a flu jab as oA isn't one of the listed groups, my husband has his tomorrow, but its only the ordinary flu, as here at least, swine flu vac isn't yet available. I had the jab last year and every year since working with elderly and disabled. It was arranged by the council who employed me. We didn't have to have it, but we could. I had it because I had a severe strain of flu years ago and was so ill for a long time (about 3 weeks, but felt like 3 months!) Also, my work would involve me caring for elderly people, some of whom could't be vaccinated themselves for medical reasons. It really can be a serious illness for very old, ill people and lead on to hospitalisation and be the last straw for them.

Nick, if you think its wrong, thats OK, as everyone must make up their own minds, not follow blindly, I know that their are good reasons for letting nature take its course, group immunity and all that, I'm going to read your NHS link, although I think I may have seen it. Swine flu is, at the moment, a white elephant for most people and has been very mild for people round here and they really have had it as the boarding school that my husband works at tests the ill children. So, thank God for that! Love Sue

oneday

It amazes me that so called experts just parrot say what they have been told.
Makes alot of money!!!!!!!!
Amazes me how people blindly go ahead and accept what they are told!

nick55

far better to think for yourself and even if you make a mistake , than let others think for you, and they may also make a mistake, but on your behalf..........

Nick

oneday wrote:

It amazes me that so called experts just parrot say what they have been told.
Makes alot of money!!!!!!!!
Amazes me how people blindly go ahead and accept what they are told!

oneday

nick55 wrote:

far better to think for yourself and even if you make a mistake , than let others think for you, and they may also make a mistake, but on your behalf..........

Nick

oneday wrote:

It amazes me that so called experts just parrot say what they have been told.
Makes alot of money!!!!!!!!
Amazes me how people blindly go ahead and accept what they are told!

yes, i agree, at least you think whatever decision you had made it was the best one for your own circumstances/beliefs etc.

oneday

have sent you a private message btw.

livinglegend

I note that your comments on NHS Direct are comments on a forum such as this one. Anyone without any medical knowledge or qualifications can post whatever they please.

Quote, your comments:
And do as with any nuisance, simply ignore it and it will go away.!!! Take vitamin D and D3 tablets, and vitamin C, eat a vegetable diet, and consider the colloidal silver which is touted across the internet.

A vaccine that has barely been clinically proven, that contains, correct me if I am wrong, squaline, and thimersol, the latter contains mercury.
Unquote

Tamiflu is only available as capsules or as a clear tutti-frutti flavored liquid syrup version for children.
Full list of ingredients of Tamiflu.
Active Ingredients:
TAMIFLU 75 mg capsules contain 75 mg oseltamivir.
Inactive Ingredients:
TAMIFLU capsules contain: pre-gelatinised starch, polyvidone K30, croscarmellose sodium, talc, sodium stearyl fumarate.

The capsule shell also contains: gelatin, black iron oxide, red iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, titanium dioxide.
The printing ink on the capsule shell also contains: dehydrated alcohol, shellac, n-butyl alcohol, titanium dioxide, FDC Blue 2, SDA-3A alcohol.
TAMIFLU capsules are gluten free and lactose free.

I don't see any of the ingredients quoted by you on the maker's listing given above. Also, as a little bit of indepth research unearths, the information on limits on mercury levels and mercury toxicity is based on studies of a different form of mercury (methylmercury), not thiomersal (ethylmercury). They might not have the same toxicity effects at the same amounts.

As the NHS figures show concerning your 'nuisance':
84 people with swine flu have died in the UK. There have been 72 deaths in England, nine in Scotland, two in Northern Ireland, and one in Wales.

Swine flu OR annual flu can kill you. If you decide to put your life on the line, that is your decision. I will be first in the queue, (if possible), for both the annual flu jab and the Swine flu capsule as well.

I also consider that the OA/RA that I and others suffer from to be a nuisance. According to you, if we simply ignore it we will be miraculously cured. Personally, I intend to keep taking the tablets as prescribed by my doctor.

Joseph 8)

nick55

but from underlying symptoms , something exacerbated by swine flue.
I may be completely wrong in my underlying assumptions, my concern for myself is this, why take in something that is alien to the body when the body, by natural remedies such as diet and vitamin supplements can mange on its own?
I have not had any kind of flue for twenty years or so, so if/ when I get it it will be like the gable end of a house falling on me.!!!!!

I will keep my vegetarian diet, keep taking vitamin tablets, maybe increase my vitamin D3 intake,and let my body exert its natural immune responses. avoiding stress, worry, depression anything that may undermine ones own defense is always best. not easy for many including myself.

I believe the normal seasonal flue vaccine is safe and should be taken by those with compromised health, or age, my father takes his every year. .but for normal healthy people i have my own reservations.
as for mercury, I take your point, the issue is why take in any poisons at all.

these are my own views and I simply wish others to come to their own conclusions, but the government I believe is asking the Royal college of Neuro surgeons to observe all this carefully for any disorders developing from the vaccine.

we all come to our own conclusion in this. why are we having this foisted on us now with a disease that is not mutating, unless we are give new knowledge, about it,

which is only the same as ordinary influenza?

feel free to disagree with me. and take ordinary flue vaccine if it is recommended, i would say, again i thought these issues need airing, as they may be too important especially for those with arthritis, whose immune system may already have too many of its burdens to bear.
to recap, we should decide these things for ourselves and not by virtue of pressure from media or government, or even doctors and so called experts. we should be our own experts-- as far as we can.
best wishes,

Nick

livinglegend wrote:

I note that your comments on NHS Direct are comments on a forum such as this one. Anyone without any medical knowledge or qualifications can post whatever they please.

Quote, your comments:
And do as with any nuisance, simply ignore it and it will go away.!!! Take vitamin D and D3 tablets, and vitamin C, eat a vegetable diet, and consider the colloidal silver which is touted across the internet.

A vaccine that has barely been clinically proven, that contains, correct me if I am wrong, squaline, and thimersol, the latter contains mercury.
Unquote

Tamiflu is only available as capsules or as a clear tutti-frutti flavored liquid syrup version for children.
Full list of ingredients of Tamiflu.
Active Ingredients:
TAMIFLU 75 mg capsules contain 75 mg oseltamivir.
Inactive Ingredients:
TAMIFLU capsules contain: pre-gelatinised starch, polyvidone K30, croscarmellose sodium, talc, sodium stearyl fumarate.

The capsule shell also contains: gelatin, black iron oxide, red iron oxide, yellow iron oxide, titanium dioxide.
The printing ink on the capsule shell also contains: dehydrated alcohol, shellac, n-butyl alcohol, titanium dioxide, FDC Blue 2, SDA-3A alcohol.
TAMIFLU capsules are gluten free and lactose free.

I don't see any of the ingredients quoted by you on the maker's listing given above. Also, as a little bit of indepth research unearths, the information on limits on mercury levels and mercury toxicity is based on studies of a different form of mercury (methylmercury), not thiomersal (ethylmercury). They might not have the same toxicity effects at the same amounts.

As the NHS figures show concerning your 'nuisance':
84 people with swine flu have died in the UK. There have been 72 deaths in England, nine in Scotland, two in Northern Ireland, and one in Wales.

Swine flu OR annual flu can kill you. If you decide to put your life on the line, that is your decision. I will be first in the queue, (if possible), for both the annual flu jab and the Swine flu capsule as well.

I also consider that the OA/RA that I and others suffer from to be a nuisance. According to you, if we simply ignore it we will be miraculously cured. Personally, I intend to keep taking the tablets as prescribed by my doctor.

Joseph 8)

joyful164

Sorry for my short message, which seems to have upset some people.
I implied that anyone with underlying medical issues should have the vaccination. My OH has heart and diabetis problems. I have asthma aswell as 4 kinds of arthritis. I know flu vaccination will not safeguard you against virus, but believe it does give you some protection. 3 years ago, I caught a form of viral pneumonia, which put me in hospital for a few days. I was on holiday at the time and 500 miles from home.
I digress, but I just wanted to reiterate my point about underlying medical issues.
joy

joyful164

Message for Nick

I value your views. My DIL is the same as yourself. Vegetarian and has always tried to safeguard her immune system and has maintained that her way was the best way. She wasn't going to put alien products into her body.
She is now fighting for her life after a form of Hodgekins Disease inva ded her body. She had to have bone marrow from her sister with the intention of getting her immune system to work. Instead, it has all gone wrong and is having to travel 100s of mile from one hospital to the next having treatment to her blood. (Rotherham hospital is the only one that can do a certain procedure) Her body is fighting the bone marrow and if they do manage to lift her immune system up by a small fraction, it will kill her. She spends everyday being terribly ill because there is nothing else they can do to improve her life.
So, what is the best for our bodies, vegetarian + suppliments or 'a little bit of everything' + vitamins?

Perhaps I am going off on the wrong thread again, but I wanted to give a scenario.
joy

nick55

I re iterate on what I have said. when I originally wrote this thread, I gave it some thought, and because I have some very radical views, and have some reservations vis a vis this vaccine, i changed my post later as i was not wishing to upset by fear or worry those who are not clear in their own minds on this issue.

my concern is this. first, why are these vaccines being foisted on us so quickly, when the flue is no more dangerous than seasonal flue and seems to be in no danger of mutating? seasonal flue may be deadly to those who have underlying health problems when a vaccination may be a good thing. I accept that.


my concern is for those who are normally healthy and that includes arthritis sufferers, who have decent diets, and such.
so, I wanted to get others to do their own research and think carefully, and make the best decision for yourself. listen to the doctors and scientists, look at the health blogs, but don't be swayed by propaganda and conditioning by the media and government. it may be they know little more than we do.

I am not saying the swine flue vaccines are dangerous, just positing a question so we may take these decisions into our own hands. if they ever become compulsory, for me that will be the absolute last straw. let us hope not.

For some the vaccines may save lives!!!!

as for diet, eating meat is not unhealthy, as I ate meat for a long time I am not a fanatical vegetarian by any means. one has to be rational. many are not!!! i wear leather shoes because that is all I can find!!!

I would suggest eat plenty of vegetables, carrots, broccoli, fruit which is very cheap in the supermarkets right now. I am eating apples, plums, peaches. i take centrum multivitamins each day, and am looking into supplementing my vitamin d and d3 intake over winter. D3 seems very effective when combating swine flue.

In hope this is of help, we must do our own research and not be lie sheep, sadly no one is free from making errors, absolute certainty is seldom of this world.

I am deeply sorry ot hear your story, it saddens me what others have to go through. I am writing hopefully for the benefit of those who have normal health. those who have serious problems i can say little. my desire is simply that others make a rational decision in respect to the swine flue, that is all
I thought these issues needed airing.

best wishes,

Nick

joyful164 wrote:

Message for Nick

I value your views. My DIL is the same as yourself. Vegetarian and has always tried to safeguard her immune system and has maintained that her way was the best way. She wasn't going to put alien products into her body.
She is now fighting for her life after a form of Hodgekins Disease inva ded her body. She had to have bone marrow from her sister with the intention of getting her immune system to work. Instead, it has all gone wrong and is having to travel 100s of mile from one hospital to the next having treatment to her blood. (Rotherham hospital is the only one that can do a certain procedure) Her body is fighting the bone marrow and if they do manage to lift her immune system up by a small fraction, it will kill her. She spends everyday being terribly ill because there is nothing else they can do to improve her life.
So, what is the best for our bodies, vegetarian + suppliments or 'a little bit of everything' + vitamins?

Perhaps I am going off on the wrong thread again, but I wanted to give a scenario.
joy

livinglegend

I fully agree with Nick's posting just above this one.

You have to conduct your own research and draw your own conclusions, whether it is a lifestyle choice or a medical treatment. You should keep yourself informed about what is happening concerning mass medication. It should be your choice, not some arrogant politician in their ivory tower.

Joseph 8)

PS. When I referred to the contents of the Tamiflu capsule in my earlier post, I was observing that there is an alternative to the Swine flu jab which did not contain the mentioned ingredients.

nick55

following your posting here, this link verifies what you have just said,

http://theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=810:baxter-qswine-fluq-jab-without-adjuvant-approved&catid=41:highlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en

best wishes,

nick

livinglegend wrote:

I fully agree with Nick's posting just above this one.

You have to conduct your own research and draw your own conclusions, whether it is a lifestyle choice or a medical treatment. You should keep yourself informed about what is happening concerning mass medication. It should be your choice, not some arrogant politician in their ivory tower.

Joseph 8)

PS. When I referred to the contents of the Tamiflu capsule in my earlier post, I was observing that there is an alternative to the Swine flu jab which did not contain the mentioned ingredients.

mellman01

Hi Nick I probably won’t bother myself although I could have it, my reason is the guy’s where I use to work would the normal flu inoculation each winter and all it seemed to do was make them all ill straight after it and it seemed to give them no extra protection afterwards anyway, problem is viruses replicate once every 20 minutes or so so by the time it comes around again this winter it will probably be a slightly modified strain so reducing the little protection a jab is meant to give you even further, one thing that does concern me though is why the panic, is it because it’s genetic makeup is close to the 1919 Spanish flu pandemic or is it a case of to many people looking for a cause to either make a lot of money and or cause a panic. Who knows?. Oh they say one really good way of boosting your imune system is get a dog well I've got two so I have double protection! .

autumnlady

nick55 wrote:

far better to think for yourself and even if you make a mistake , than let others think for you, and they may also make a mistake, but on your behalf..........

Nice to meet a kindred spirit!
I had swine flu over a week ago, well apparently I did, no doc actually saw me and diagnosed but the lady on the phone said I should have Tamiflu and gave me the number with instructions where to get it etc. So that must make it flu right?

No!

I admit the 'flu' was nasty and I have many underlying health problems apart from RA including a compromised immune system and frankly I prefer to take my chances with my body doing what it does best especially after doing my own research on Tamiflu which has numerous side effects including death.

It took me four days to feel anywhere near human but I survived with water, bedrest and painkillers for the headache and I urge others to think before they leap into taking stuff that hasnt been tested properly. At least do some research first.

mrsdalloway

Hi Autumnlady thank you, your comment was the point I was trying to make about the statistics in that you weren't swabbed therefore how did they know you had swine flu? Don't get me wrong I know a couple of people who have had flu and it is a nightmare and as your case leaves you bedridden. I personally have only had bad colds which although nasty were not flu.

To answer someone else's comment I am not someone who 'ignores it and hopes it goes away' trust me I have had RA for 14 years (after being diagnosed at 25) and after a tkr in '06 I know that it won't go away! However, after this amount of time I am now in a position to consider my meds carefully I know what my body will tolerate (I also suffer from colitis) and what it won't. Therefore, I discuss with my rheumatologist what is the best treatment to stabilise my condition. Just because I question what it is offered it doesn't make me a loon!