Suffer little children

joanlawson

Hi

Today, yet another sickening case of child abuse is reported in the papers. This involves a mother of 8, who was supposedly being monitored by Cambridgeshire County Council S. Services.

Social workers became involved with the family in 1999, and yet the children have been severely abused for at least 6 years. During that time, they have been beaten regularly with all kinds of implements of torture , branded with a red hot screwdriver, slashed with a knife, and made to do all the work in the house while their mother lay in bed.

Eventually, one of the children became suicidal, and then two of them told a teacher what was happening to them. At the time of arrest, their mother was heavily pregnant with her 8th child. She has been found guilty of 18 charges of cruelty.

How could the S,Services not see what was happening? For 6 years, for God's sake!! Have they learned nothing from cases like Victoria Climbie and Baby P?? The Deputy Director said,"This seems to be part of an ongoing problem with social services nationally, where departments are not joined up in their thinking process and are not sharing information effectively".

When I was teaching, I reported concerns I had about children in my class, often serious concerns, and nothing ever seemed to be done. When is the government and social services going to do something? How many more horrific cases are we going to hear of ?

Joan

frogmorton

Sorry Joan
As a former social worker (no longer practising due to the enormous toll it took on myself and my children)I have to respond.
Who hurt those children? The parents did.
Do social services act alone? NO they are obliged to take their concerns to the clerks dept (solicitors) IF they have enough evidence then they take it to court and the COURT decides whether or not the child is removed. Children whose names are on the 'register' are subject to ALL agencise involved agreeing plans about them.
I have been in situations many times when Action could not be taken due to lack of evidence and even so called 'good' solicitors who 'got the parents off'
I have had collegues tyres slashed, threats and actual violence against myself. I can only suggest that, like little Peter, it is very possible that those parents were experts at avoiding workers (including health visitors and teachers, doctors etc all of whom would have seen these children over the last 6 years too) and probably intimidating them too. Social Workers do not have a legal right of entry.
Sorry Joan if I seem a little defensive, but I would be very very very surprised if the workers involved were not extremely worried about that family. I know I would have been. I woke most nights in the small hours worrying about 'my'; cases and my inability to really protect them.
The law says Children are best brought up by their families and as such it is not as easy as you would think to 'do something'.
Abusers too are able to exert their power over children to keep things scret and to convince them that things will be worse if they tell.
Of course it is well known that abuse is most often reported by schools where scholl-aged children are concerned.
I am just glad I got out before I was on the News at ten - because I know one day I would have been.
Sorry again Joan
Toni

skezier

Hi Joan,

I also have to step in here....... When failings happen they tend to be across the bored and you really can't just put the blame on one person (be it with a small team behind them).

My sister is a social worker, like Toni said she is bound by the laws of the land........ As are abusers but abusers are behind closed doors and social workers are not. Don't for one min I am condoning any of this, I haven't seen the news or read a paper today but you honestly can't lay it all at one persons door, its many, many failings and they have always been there. The biggest failing of all is the fact that society still has theses revolting excuses for human beings with in it and thats the true failing.

As Toni says it isn't the social workers who did this, you say about them allowing it to happen but I don't think there is one social worker who would allow this but the burden is to prove it before anything can be done and as you said yesterday abusers are very devious people cus they do know what they are doing is wrong!

There is a huge shortage of social workers and they have giant work loads and when ever there is a witch hunt more leave so widening the holes in the net for the abusers to slide through.

Sorry I normally keep out of debates but the biggest failure isn't the system its the people who perpetrate the abuse in what ever guise. x

joanlawson

Toni

You don't need to apologise, I wasn't intending to have a go at social workers. I know what a difficult job they do, and how often their hands are tied as to what action they can take. Social workers are overworked and underpaid, and I wouldn't do the job for anything.

But it just seems that the whole system of child protection isn't working properly, when such abuse can continue over a long period when a family is being monitored. I don't just mean the social workers, but everyone involved in the case.

I do wonder what the teachers were doing in this case as it went on so long. We all have training to recognise the signs. I wonder why no-one picked them up? A child who is being so severely abused cannot possibly be functioning normally at school, and presumably they were on the At Risk register. They were found to have permanent scars from the branding and beating, so I wonder why these weren't noticed. I was always on the lookout for bruises and scars when the children got changed for PE or swimming.

lindalegs

I think Social Workers are just the scapegoat - the whole system fails these children.

Luv Legs

indigo

It is the parents of the children who must take sole responsibility.

Social Workers live with the knowledge of what is happening........
knowing that their hands are tied...........

Knowing that they are being lied to by parents........

breaking their hearts at the suffering that the children are
going through........

the stress of all of this putting their health at risk.

Social workers do a fine job........they should not be made
scape goats for the the real abusers.

Love Indigo (x)

frogmorton

Hi Joan
Glad I haven't offended you!
I think there needs to be a society in which workers should be allowed to go into situations and be treated with respect by people (the way the media treat them doesn't help does it?!).
Those who abuse children know that they have the upper hand and the power. That needs to change.
Cris
I don't usually join in either.
I don't envy your sis and like you hate it when one person gets scapegoated. This feeds the power of the dsyfunctional families.
I used to knock on the door of those 'scary' people and be relevied when they weren't in!!! Then I would be terrified that I hadn't seen the child and worry myself to death.
That's why I am NOt doing it any more. Like most Social workers I honestly thought I could make a diffrence. I now consider myself to be e 'recovering Social Worker'!
Take care
Both
Toni xx

frogmorton

indigo wrote:

It is the parents of the children who must take sole responsibility.

Social Workers live with the knowledge of what is happening........
knowing that their hands are tied...........

Knowing that they are being lied to by parents........

breaking their hearts at the suffering that the children are
going through........

the stress of all of this putting their health at risk.

Social workers do a fine job........they should not be made
scape goats for the the real abusers.

Love Indigo (x)

Cheers Indigo and Linda!
That's nice to know
Toni xx

joanlawson

Cris and Caroline

I totally agree with you that ultimately it is the fault of the abusers, not anyone else. Sadly, there have always been people in society who are cruel to anyone in a weaker position than themselves, and children are
an easy target, being small and defencelesss.

We will never eradicate this from society because evil will always exist, but we must do everything in our power, and put maximum resources and effort into trying to protect children to the best of our ability. And really, that means everyone making an effort to be aware of what could be going on behind closed doors, and reporting anything worrying or suspicious. Too often people are afraid to tell anyone about something because they think it is nothing to do with them, and so the abusers are free to carry on.

Sorry if I am going on about this, but I feel very strongly about the subject.

Joan

angel1

frogmorton wrote:

Abusers too are able to exert their power over children to keep things scret and to convince them that things will be worse if they tell.

Toni

Whenever I have worked with children as a Counsellor, I have found the above sentence to be frighteningly true. Even when the physical evidence was there for anyone to see, these little ones would never divulge the truth, making the whole process from then on a nightmare. The law seems to work AGAINST all those who - as Toni said - put their own health at risk, trying to protect these kids.

What is also very worrying is the lack of social workers anyway, to deal with what is now an epidemic, due to horrendous parenting. THAT is where the attention needs to be focused........Ange

joanlawson

frogmorton wrote:

Hi Joan
Glad I haven't offended you!
I think there needs to be a society in which workers should be allowed to go into situations and be treated with respect by people (the way the media treat them doesn't help does it?!).
Those who abuse children know that they have the upper hand and the power. That needs to change.
Cris
I don't usually join in either.
I don't envy your sis and like you hate it when one person gets scapegoated. This feeds the power of the dsyfunctional families.
I used to knock on the door of those 'scary' people and be relevied when they weren't in!!! Then I would be terrified that I hadn't seen the child and worry myself to death.
That's why I am NOt doing it any more. Like most Social workers I honestly thought I could make a diffrence. I now consider myself to be e 'recovering Social Worker'!
Take care
Both
Toni xx

Toni

I think you were very brave to knock on those doors at all! That is the problem really, we are happy to let others get on with doing such dangerous work on our behalf , pay them peanuts for doing it, and then blame them when things go wrong. The fact that you left speaks volumes about what is wrong with the system too, because you are exactly the kind of caring, hard-working person who is needed.

Joan

indigo

joanlawson wrote:

Cris and Caroline

I totally agree with you that ultimately it is the fault of the abusers, not anyone else. Sadly, there have always been people in society who are cruel to anyone in a weaker position than themselves, and children are
an easy target, being small and defencelesss.

We will never eradicate this from society because evil will always exist, but we must do everything in our power, and put maximum resources and effort into trying to protect children to the best of our ability. And really, that means everyone making an effort to be aware of what could be going on behind closed doors, and reporting anything worrying or suspicious. Too often people are afraid to tell anyone about something because they think it is nothing to do with them, and so the abusers are free to carry on.

Sorry if I am going on about this, but I feel very strongly about the subject.

Joan

Hi Joan....

this is a subject felt strongly and sorely about by many.........

too often children are ignored........they are accused of being
the liars.........

parents......are supposed to be the pillars and protectors of a
childs world.........and are the last people to be thought of
as abusers..........

It is the ' natural ' response to call a child an attention seeker
as it is .......or should be for a parent to be a natural protector
of their own children........

This has proven to be a wrong assumption for a very long time
and I fear will go on for many generations to come.........

Parents are not always natural care givers to their young ones.

Love Indigo (x)

frogmorton

I promise faithfully to shut up in a minute
I remember going into houses where the parents had dangerous dogs who they would NOT put out. Whjere they drank, or did drugs.
Where the kids slept on matresses in the floor - no sheets and they had a wide screen TV.
Where the was no food or loo roll, but the parents had SKY installed etc etc.
WHY????

The parents are responsible, but often they had parents who did the same when they were kids. We tried to break the pattern

The kids have little voice you are right
To be honest I am so glad we have things like childline now and kids are told more at school about what is ok and what is not - that is the hope beacuse ther is no way that those who work with the vulnerable are EVER going to be given respect (and that includes the elderly and those with learning disabilities) which would make abusers fear THEM instead.
What a can of worms eh?
No answrs - sorry
Toni xx

joanlawson

angel1 wrote:

frogmorton wrote:

Abusers too are able to exert their power over children to keep things scret and to convince them that things will be worse if they tell.

Toni

Whenever I have worked with children as a Counsellor, I have found the above sentence to be frighteningly true. Even when the physical evidence was there for anyone to see, these little ones would never divulge the truth, making the whole process from then on a nightmare. The law seems to work AGAINST all those who - as Toni said - put their own health at risk, trying to protect these kids.

What is also very worrying is the lack of social workers anyway, to deal with what is now an epidemic, due to horrendous parenting. THAT is where the attention needs to be focused........Ange

Hi Ange

The social worker situation is now worse than ever, I believe, because since these high-profile cases, people are leaving the job, and numbers of new people coming in has declined.

It is true that the abusers exert enormous power over the children who are their victims, and they are often very reluctant to tell the truth about what is going on. This is particularly true where the abuser is a parent.

Someone I know was unable to disclose what had happened to him as a child until he was in his 60s. This had had a huge impact on his life, and unfortunate repercussions on other people in his family too.

Joan

joanlawson

frogmorton wrote:

I promise faithfully to shut up in a minute
I remember going into houses where the parents had dangerous dogs who they would NOT put out. Whjere they drank, or did drugs.
Where the kids slept on matresses in the floor - no sheets and they had a wide screen TV.
Where the was no food or loo roll, but the parents had SKY installed etc etc.
WHY????

The parents are responsible, but often they had parents who did the same when they were kids. We tried to break the pattern

The kids have little voice you are right
To be honest I am so glad we have things like childline now and kids are told more at school about what is ok and what is not - that is the hope beacuse ther is no way that those who work with the vulnerable are EVER going to be given respect (and that includes the elderly and those with learning disabilities) which would make abusers fear THEM instead.
What a can of worms eh?
No answrs - sorry
Toni xx

I don't think you should shut up. This is a subject which demands you shouting from the rooftops :!: People like you who have experienced first-hand what the problems are need to speak out to make people aware.

Things like Childline are a useful weapon, but probably education is the biggest weapon of all.

It is a can of worms, but one we should all be willing to open.

Joan

chris7

Lots of relevant points made here today of all days for Children in Need.

I feel that perhaps, my donation to Children in Need today will help in some small way some of these disadvantaged and troubled children. It is one charity I sincerely believe and trust that we know any contribution we make does go directly to those who need it.

I also have every sympathy for social workers, who are often blamed but rarely given credit for all their often unnoticed good work that they do.

I hope that all of you out there who did some fund raising for today had fun, and are now enjoying the TV.

Chris

joanlawson

Hi Chris

A good point about Children in Need. There are many ways to help families and disadvantaged children.

Joan

joyful164

It all comes down to resources in the end, I think.
As an administration worker for the County Council, I have worked in Childrens' Services, schools, ambulance services and fire stations.

I have seen case studies, I have 'baby sat' young mothers who come to visit their babies, children, who they have let down because of abuse, neglect, being in prison, whatever. I have sat in on ' professionals' meetings. In every instance, it seems that each professional is passing the buck, wait and see what the school achieves and report back, then it's wait for the children's officer to make a report. I know how much paperwork they have to get through. Things have to be carefully reported. Everyone wants a success story. Everything takes so much time and inbetween are the parents lying their way out of their problems. They are very good at pulling the wool over your eyes.
When I worked in the fostering and adoption section, 3 years in all, so often the emergencies happened at 4 20 p.m. on a Friday afternoon, just when everyone wants to go home for a quiet weekend. In the middle of all the comings and goings, you have the poor child. They have probably worked their way through all the available foster parents already because they have behavioural problems. I wonder why?

I could go on. Many of you probably know all this already, but having seen all this first hand I feel I know where the blame lies.

joy

joanlawson

In the middle of all the comings and goings, you have the poor child. They have probably worked their way through all the available foster parents already because they have behavioural problems. I wonder why?

Hi Joy

That is the saddest part, isn't it? It goes full circle because these children are emotionally damaged, and don't have good role models. Then when they grow up, they have no emotional vocabulary to draw on, and the whole thing starts again.

Joan