Help!! re possible work relocation

chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
Hi all :cry:

Can anyone help please?

I hear today that the small factory firm I work for is considering relocation to larger premises. :shock: There are only 16 permanent staff though we can swell to over 20 with temps in the busy summer.

I am currently a five minute walk away from the current location and do not drive. Even if the new site is accessible via public transport this would mean at least one train and a bus to get there and goodness knows how far to walk, almost an hour to get there!

Even though we are mostly considered unskilled and easily replacable I assume they are obliged to offer us a position in the new place? :? If we refuse are we entitled to any redunancy? I am struggling as it is and can no way cope with such a move. I have been there more than 10 years, approx 3 full time though the last 7 plus part time 3 days a week. I am totally shell shocked and gutted at the possible thought of this happening, just when I honestly thought things couldn't get any worse for me at the moment. :cry::cry:

This may be an irrelevant question since my Consultant has only allowed me temporary probation for 6 months regarding possibly hip replacements, which he says I need but I am trying to put off, but I need to know if it is worth me trying to hang on at work as long as possible.

Can anyone advise please, this is just another big and upsetting problem for me at the moment and I am trying to find out what the options if any? are.

Thank you for reading.
Chris :?


  • annie_mial
    annie_mial Member Posts: 5,614
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Oh Chris, I can't believe this has happened to you! Just what you big-time don't need.

    Sorry, can't help with the redundancy question, I'm sure someone will be able to help you, just wanted to say how much I am feeling for you at present.

  • skezier
    skezier Member Posts: 11,333
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris,

    I am sorry your have this on your plate as well. I have not idea about employment laws but would have thought they have an obligation to offer you the re-location....... Flower its not going to be tomorrow and i does take time to move a business though. I wish I could help but laving you a (((((((((( )))))))))) Love Cris xxx
  • chris7
    chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Bless you Annie, Lynn and Cris for the welcome replies, support and hugs here.

    I have tried twice to send individual replies to you here and each time I hit submit I have lost my internet connection and message so am giving up now and will try again tomorrow. This has not been a good day all round :cry: but I will try and get back to you all tomorrow.

    Thank you all, please take care of yourselves.
    Chris (((( )))) xxx
  • carola
    carola Member Posts: 786
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris
    Hope you feeling a bit better today?
    I am no expert on employment law however I think they definately do need to give you the option of relocating to their new premises.
    Obviously with your condition just now it may not be possible for you to work in new location therefore I would think that with the help of Citizen Advice and medical reports you would have a chance to qualify for redundancy.
    I think you have been with the factory for a number of years? If so, then you would get some redundancy pay.
    If all this does happen Chris then please look upon it as an opportunity - things happen for a reason therefore look forward to the wonderful thing that must be just around the corner for you.
    Keep us updated on this Chris and don't panic.
    Carol xs :lol:
  • maria09
    maria09 Member Posts: 1,905
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris just offering my support, Im sure they have to keep you on if they are just relocating but not sure about redundancy have you thought about citizens advice they may be of some help. Keep strong. Maria x
  • chris7
    chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi again, thanks Carol and Maria for also calling in here.

    Will try and add a bit more here if my internet will cope.

    Annie you are so right I really don't need this at the moment. Hope you are okish at the moment and getting settled and enjoying the new garden.

    Lynn thanks for the very helpful link. Looking at that I do think it would be unreasonable for them to expect me and others to try and get to the possible new place unless they intend to put on some transport even for a little while. Some do have children at local schools here, it would make it too long a day.

    Contracts? :?: .... yes hmmm!! ...... well... we did eventually get some last year and they do include the catch all statement 'any other duties as required by the company' . We have a shop which is local though still a bus ride and a longer walk for me. Would they get out of paying redundancy by offering us any vacancies there?

    Does anyone know?
    It is totally different work, though I would still be on my feet all day and I wouldn't want to or even like working there, but think they would maybe wriggle out of redundancy using that offer. As I already work on Sundays in retail with lovely books I guess I couldn't really refuse, could I?
    Just am so cross, don't want to lose my little job on my doorstep where I work with people I like. :cry: Though Arther might make me anyway.

    Yes Lynn, and Carol if even a little redundancy was offered I do think this could be a blessing in disguise. I know wonky said something similar earlier. Even a small payment may help me get through a possible op recovery period and then I would be forced to look for something else. Oh I don't know tis all too confusing.

    Cris was hoping you were in the embers when you posted last night. Do hope you are feeling a bit better today. I know it won't happen soonish, just trying to work out whether I should try and hang on there until and if it does. The MD doesn't mess about once he had made a decision I suspect it would happen once the Christmas rush done in November and we go quiet. Which is also the time I see my Consultant again!! Deep joy.

    Thanks Maria, yes CAB may help if it comes to it, but the link Lynn sent has I think answered some of my questions here. I know you had work hassles too there, hope you are ok at the mo.?

    Anyway thanks to you all, ((( ))) Will see what happens next! :?
    take care.
    Chris xx
  • carola
    carola Member Posts: 786
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Me again!

    Just a thought but if it came to the worst and they got rid of you cos they had offered you a job in the new place and you couldn't accept cos of the painful travelling and did you mention different job duties? Maybe the CAB could advise you on constructive dismissal. Just a thought.
    Also, the DLA money thing - could that be useful for travelling by taxi or perhaps it is too far for that and would bankrupt even a billionaire - I don't know.
    Just thoughts!
    There must be a way here. Someone will maybe think of something.
    Meantime, keep us posted and good luck.
    Carol x
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I can understand your dismay chris7 (how's the sticker collection by the way?) but they are only considering. The country is nowhere near out of recession yet, it's a huge step for them to take 'cos bigger premises = bigger bills. Business rates are not cheap.

    If they do take the step, it won't be for a while, which might give you the chance to start looking around for something nearer, what are you qualified for? What would you like to do? It may not mean the end of everything, even tho it feels like it- it could be the beginning of something better. DD
  • chris7
    chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Thanks Lynn, Carol and DD

    No Lynn am sure there is nothing about relocation in the contract so maybe that works in our favour. As for unions, regret I don't have alot of faith in them, but will try CAB if it looks like it is on. Hope you had a better day there? I appear to have missed most of it! :oops: Hey ho.

    Thanks Carol hope you having a good day? DLA a complete mystery to me as I do still get to work 4 days a week and HAVE to look after myself and get out and about or starve, regardless of the bad days I have never bothered applying. Seems even those so much worse off than me get refused as a matter of course. I do get working tax credits at the moment which helps a little. If the move does go ahead can't see me going anyway so would just have to find something else with or without redundancy.

    DD, hope you had no stabbings to put up with today, nice to see you around the forums. What a good memory you have I'm impressed, no the sticker book on hold at the mo as needed a couple of days off sick this week and no sick pay. Hey ho.
    I did have a professional career that I unfortunately can't go back too but to be honest the degree just a bit of paper after all and confidence the big problem here.
    The recession helped us out, as when the pound weakened we had more and more orders going abroad and have kept them as well as all our internal ones. Who says this Country doesn't manufacture anything any more we make damn fine toffee and have done since 1840. :D Business is good, though the fact that half the staff are Lithuanian now is a personal beef I won't go into here. :x

    Thanks again if we do move am sure it will not be until November when the Christmas orders all out and we have a bit of lull so will contact CAB if it looks likely. Redundancy would do me a favour if offered so will just have to wait and see.

    take care all (((( )))))
    Chris (who is a bit happier today cos, France got whupped by Mexico but will be an absolute bag of nerves tomorrow night. ) Don't let me down boys!
  • speedalong
    speedalong Member Posts: 3,300
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris, you may well qualify for free taxis to work ... there is a scheme to help with this ... I'm not very up on all this but I'm sure I read on here somewhere that it is the access to work scheme or something like that. Definitely go to CAB and hopefully they will be able to advise the best way for you go with this ...

  • wibberley
    wibberley Member Posts: 421
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris,

    Sorry to hear you're going through uncertain times at work. I think they could make you redundant on medical grounds, just depends how willing they are to do that as it will cost them and with the recession, they may fight it.

    Best read and re-read your contract - do you know the HR person at the company to have a very informal, off-record chat? If not, I think CAB is probably your best port of call.

    Good luck with it all,

    Lois x
  • chris7
    chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Speedy thanks for calling in. (nearly called you hairy legs, sorry :lol: )

    Think it is time I called at CAB for lots of reasons. I have just been plodding on for so long, I have no idea if I am entitled to any help at all with anything. Gee a taxi now and then would mean I could do my supermarket shop in one go instead of having to make several trips cos I can't carry much these days and refuse to own a shopping trolley. Never mind getting to work.

    Hi Lois, nice to see you too and thanks for the advise. Sorry but I do laugh at talk of HR. We are such a small firm that there doesn't seem to be any proper rules or organisation at all. There is only one full time secretary/PA to the MD and she wouldn't have a clue. A former colleague was somehow persuaded to leave after his long absence due to a knee op. when he couldn't manage the job any more. Retirement on medical grounds is clearly a non starter they would wriggle out of. Heck my boss didn't even ask me how I got on when I saw my Consultant recently. My pay has been wrong, short for the last two months and is still to be rectified. Though I started work there in 20003 we only got official contracts in 2007!!! which have never been amended.

    Just checked the contract today and it does say " We may at any time transfer you to any part of our business, or require you to do alternative or additional duties, if this is reasonably required for the purpose of our business. " So I think I have perhaps answered my own question. I wouldn't get a bean in redundancy if we do relocate. Sorry to have turned this into a rant, it wasn't my intention. Truth is I should have left the job when arther started playing up and now feel who else would take me on.

    Thanks again for all the advise and support here. I will get to CAB when I can face it and see what they can advise. I know others have advised elsewhere I should see one of the disabilty people at the Job Centre but I have been head in the sand trying to avoid both. I hate this damn arther!!!

    take care all
    Chris x
  • skezier
    skezier Member Posts: 11,333
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris,

    I hope you can get the sticker book done again soon. I am not sure what they are though but have seen some card with very good drawings of players ion then t the sale I guess its probably not those though is it?

    I can't help wondering if your best option is to go to the job center.... I know its horrible flower but you might get something better, nicer and easier for your bones to do.

    I really hope it gets easier for you and that your hips are not being too horrible to you? Leaving you a ((((( ))))) and thanks for the shortbread.... I was ready to defend it should someone else try and have some :lol::lol::lol: Nasty eh?! :roll:

    You take care and I so hope it all gets easier for you there. Love Cris who is about to go and ask the neighbours to either leave or go into the back fields so she can get the dogs out... xxxxx
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Just popped in for an update: you ask who else would take you on - well, VVP has a lady working for him who has a tough time with RA, she often works from home as she can't get out of bed. He chose her, despite the health problems, because he thought she would be good at her job and she is. There are some nice people out there - they just have to be found. DD Oooops! :oops: Forgot! Hope you are keeping well. DD
  • Wonkylegs
    Wonkylegs Member Posts: 3,504
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    HI Chris,
    sorry to see that things are even less rosy for you than I thought :shock: .... dont' often call into this forum as I haven't usually got much to add :oops:

    sorry that you are having to deal with even more.
    wish I could help but am sending you some special wonky ((((((hugs))))))) to keep you going for a bit.

  • mariefab
    mariefab Member Posts: 21
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Chris

    Whether your employer is aware of it or not; you have enforcable employment rights.

    A business closure or relocation creates a potential redundancy situation.
    The relevant part of section 139 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 states:
    (1)For the purposes of this Act an employee who is dismissed shall be taken to be dismissed by reason of redundancy if the dismissal is wholly or mainly attributable to—
    (a)the fact that his employer has ceased or intends to cease—
    (ii)to carry on that business in the place where the employee was so employed

    Case law has established that the 'place' of work is determined based on the facts during the employment rather than a contractual mobility clause. (e.g. Bass Leisure Ltd v Thomas- EAT and High Table Ltd v Horst & Ors- Court of Appeal.)

    An employer can't use a catch-all mobility clause to avoid having to make a redundancy payment to an employee who has worked in one location.

    The aim of most employment law is to keep people at work. So, your employer must offer it's employees the opportunity to continue their employment at the new premises.

    Whether, or not, you are required to accept this depends on if it is a 'suitable' alternative.
    I don't know the distance involved in your case, but I would suggest that a relocation that extends your day from a five minute walk- to a bus, a train and a further walk is not suitable.

    It's worth hanging in there as long as you can because redundancy and notice pay are based on the number of whole years of service.
    If you were made redundant your statutory minimum entitlement would be:
    10 weeks notice pay
    and Redundancy pay- 1 week's pay for each complete year from age 22-41, 1.5 weeks for each year aged 41+.
    and payment for any accrued but untaken holiday entitlement.

    Hope this helps.
  • chris7
    chris7 Bots Posts: 2,696
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Mariefab

    Thanks for this, you know your stuff there. Sorry to see you have recently joined us, but you are very welcome. I am sure you will find it a supportive and friendly site and no doubt be able to help others here too.
    Things have stagnated somewhat since I raised this. Though we are rapidly outgrowing our premises the proposed move did fall through thankfully and we staying put for the time being. He is squeezing the extra staff we need for the busy summer months in at the moment. It is only a small firm with about 10 permanent staff in the packing room which doubles in the summer with extra staff and orders!!
    Anyway thanks for all this I have made a note of your reply as I am sure he will raise the issue again in the future so I do like to be prepared though events may well be overtaken by my OA. I am as you say, trying to hang on to the job at the moment. I only do 3 days there now which are an increasing struggle and as I may well have to accept my Consultants' offer of a new hip next year :? I feel sure I will have to look for something less physical afterwards. I fear I may need to call on your and the others employment advise again later if I may?
    I've just seen your hello post and do hope you are coping with your own diagnosis and get the support you need. I will look out for you on the forums.
    take care