A civilised society?

joanlawson

I've always thought that a civilised society is measured by the way it treats its old, disabled, or sick people.

I was shocked to read a report in the paper of some statistics released by the Office of National Statistics, who were asked to analyse death certificates of people in care homes in England and Wales, 2005 to 2009.

According to this, 667 people died of dehydration, and 157 died of malnutrition. That means that they weren't given food and water, for God's sake :!: :shock: :shock: :shock: This is in care homes which charge an average of £600 to £800 per week :shock: The true nimbers may be even higher because victims of care home neglect who die in hospital are not included in the totals.

In the poorest parts of the world, people look after their old, and value their wisdom and experience. Here we seem to shut them away in care homes and too often forget about them.

It's sad comment on a supposedly civilised society.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1352015/Damning-report-exposes-rising-number-elderly-killed-neglect-care-homes.html

Joan

tjt6768

It really is a sad state of affairs when we cannot even rely on them getting the most basic of care needs.... I for one treat my elders with the utmost respect, always have, guess it was the way I was raised, our Daughter was raised the same way too.... There are sadly too many folk who don't care, many of them working in care homes obviously... :roll:

caterina57

Not at all surprised by these stats. I cared for my mum for years 24/7 until due to me struggling had to go into a care home to give me a break. I had a constant battle with the care home - she was dehydrated cos she was blind and they just put her drinks in front of her and malnourished because she had to be fed and it was always too cold when they got round to seeing to her so she wouldn't eat it. She also had dementia so couldn't stand up for herself. I used to go in to feed her at meal times and lost the count of times I had to change her because they had not toileted her.
Broke my heart and when I needed it most the system let me down. She died in hosp of a massive stroke so wouldn't be included in these stats.

Cath

caterina57

Thanks Tinkerbelle.
Strange thing is I have worked in care all my working life - first with children and now with elderly, believe me I always make sure that the vulnerable generation get the care and respect they deserve when its my watch. Unfortunately I have sadly learned that its primarily a money making business.And despite inspections and standards providers will always get out of their duties if its not profit making.

Cath

joanlawson

I sympathise with you, Cath, as my Dad had dementia too. My Mum struggled to care for him at home, but eventually he had to go into a home as she couldn't cope. He went in with lots of nice clothes, but they were all stolen ( by staff, we suspected ) and they dressed him in clothes belonging to other people which didn't even fit. Other patients with dementia used to steal his food because they weren't properly supervised, and on one occasion, he was attacked by another patient. It was a constant battle, and I was afraid to complain too many times in case they took it out on my Dad. People with dementia are even more vulnerable to neglect and abuse, so there need to be safeguards in place. These seem to be sadly lacking.

frogmorton

Basic health need like food an drink and meds are not given regularly on wards too :sad:

My Mum was badly neglected when she was in hospital before she died luckily she escaped home and I was able to complain later (scary thought when you know the person may need to be helped there again isn't it?) after she died. That nurse was got rid of, but a friend dying of cancer was not given fluids for 48 hours, those staff are still around. Retrained as his wife complained and by the heck is she GOOD at it!!

It is all so so wrong :sad:

Joan we can only do our best by thoes we love can't we?

Thiose poor poor people :sad:

Love

toni xx

joanlawson

Hi Toni

I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your Mum, and the sad thing is that you hear so many stories like that.

I find it very worrying because we are an ageing population, so there are going to be many more people who will need care in the future, including possibly ouirselves. It doesn't bear thinking about, does it? Surely we have a right to expect a high standard of care, but it seems that even basic care is lacking in some places.

livinglegend

Until they have people in court charged with manslaughter due to wilful neglect and jail them for several years, nothing will be done.

joanlawson

Yes I agree, Joseph. Some of these care homes have got away with it for too long, and I'm surprised that there haven't been more prosecutions. If an old person is taken into hospital dehydrated, malnourished, and with bedsores, surely it should be reported to the police.

mellman01

Boy oh boy this is going to really spin me up but bugger it!
Right living in the UK today is like stepping through the looking glass and ending up in a parallel universe where everything is reversed, let me indulge you.
We use to fight wars close to our Island as that’s where the bosh lived so all the nasty buggers were over the water in the land of the snail eating collaborators!, and all the nasty things were miles away and anyway that’s what Johnny foreigner did we on the other hand played cricket and queued , we played fair and understood the simple values were to be admired and not seen as they are today as an out dated and totally stupid idea that’s now seen as a weakness to be exploited by the general dross the welfare state has spawned ironically the very same the old have paid for but now find they can’t access due to their age!?., what did Bevin say?, oh yes it was care from cradle to grave??, you see that’s where they got stiffed he never said anything about an old peoples home now did he?.
Nope if you’re old you’re expected to shut up and die as you’re seen as a coffin dodger who expects too much even though you have been paying for it all these years.
Nope we have to look after all the dross and scum that know a good deal when they see one, I mean poor old Apu has had to pay thousands to get him and his off spring here so he can milk the system and live in the land of milk and honey so he must be bloody desperate the poor old bugger, so that shows his needs must be more than yours so that makes him much more vulnerable than you.
And now onto war, this is a strange one, we today are fighting the very people who live here and enjoy all that our state has to offer but don’t ever have to assimilate they have their own little bit of home paid for by us , it’s like fighting the second world war with half the Waffen SS living on benefits only just down the road, they stay here and get looked after better than the indigenous native population and when they get a bit upset from watching the terribly biased and anti English BBC24 hour news they fly out with a giro sponsored air ticket with no threat of arrest when going or coming back in, so off they toddle to fight the very grand kids of those daft smelly lot who should just stop moaning and peg it. Instead of taking up all the benifit money and space.
And to rub salt into the wounds of logic the UK border forces have even deported wounded Ghurkhas coming back here for treatment after being shot by the very guy who was very probably flying out the same day the wounded soldier was, oh yes and don't try and apply Cameron logic coz it seems just as messed up as the last lots was, we have just spent £4 billion on 4 brnad new Nimrods and then cut them up for scrap baked bean tins, and we have also scrapped a working air craft carrier and the sea Harrier squadron that was on it and purchased two brand spanking new ones, one wont have any planes for at least 10 years and the other wont ever be used, now is it me or is there a patern forming here????.
Right that’s it me spleen went west again but it’s still not drained fully so I dare say it will explode soon enough!.

mirabella

OMG! those are the most distressing posts I have read and the most scary too.I feel for all of you that have had to experiance all the terrible going on's.I really hope it's the minority.My Kieth is a carer in the community and deals with lots of the elderly in their own homes,he worries about them all the time.I know it's against the rules but we have between us,done their washing,I have cooked dinners for them,given them the support and reasurance that they need.I guy is blind but Kieth has given him our private no so if he gets upset or the new agency does not turn up,Kieth will sort out for him.
Mellman,well :!: I agree that today,we as the elderly are a poblem to sociaty,just hope and pray that if I ever get put in a home I'll have the strength and ability to smack them in the eye.However if I am of stable mind,would just top myself,end of it,don't want anyone changing my knickers Mirabella

tjt6768

Oh Mell, you are a true ranter Rkid, you make my road rage and minor bablings look like the ramblings of a teething toddler, and I thank you for it matey.... Lol
It is such a shame that we are not really allowed to speak freely anywhere in this country these days for fear of being called anti this, anti that.........
I love my country dearly but hate it with a passion sometimes because of what it is turning into.... My Grandma is 92, lives in her flat, has carersgo in three times a day, all was well till it all went private.... She was out to bed one night at nine o'clock (she wears a pad) and they didn't come to get her up till eleven the next morning, the poor old love must have been soaked, they gave her breakfast at about half eleven, they were coming at one to give her her dinner... Needless to say the family have been straight on the phone and had them send different staff, and at the right times, my poor Grandma should never be left that way... I was so bloody angry...

Anyway....

Good rant Mell Rkid, keep that spleen bulging mate, stuff em...

joanlawson

Mell, if I ever get put in an old people's home, can I have your mobile phone number please :?: They wouldn't dare to treat me badly if they were subjected to one of your rants :shock:

Mirabella, it's reassuring to know that there are kind carers around like you and your Kieth. I'm sure that there are thousands of carers who do a wonderful job, but there are also some rotten apples who inflict misery too.

Tony, what a disgrace that your Grandma was left like that :shock: Your family were able to complain on her behalf, but I worry about the poor old people who have no-one to speak up for them.

joanlawson

Gosh Del, that sounds wonderful for your Mum. It's how it should be for all old people, but we don't seem able to do it in this country.

Unfortunately, I can't see things improving in the future with all the cuts etc.

mellman01

I know this isn't totally on track but it is one reason why some wonder what the hell is going on.

From BBC news online

A Child rapist wins Carstairs food ban legal case
Lyons has been held in Carstairs State Hospital since 1990 A child rapist has won a legal bid to be allowed fizzy drinks and chocolate in the State Hospital at Carstairs.

I would feed the s*&e cyanide or lead at a very high speed, why don't they put this sick **** up against a wall and get rid of him. And who is the legal team helping him!, don't they have kids, probably liberty they seem to love anyone like this.

mellman01

No probs me dear boy I'd be old Pierpoint in casses like this no problem,in my eyes certain crimes mean you have gone through a level were you don't have any bloody rights or voice, you should be lucky to be breathing, the victim is forgotten today Liberty and their kind have seen to that that's where Islam has got it right an eye for an eye, or in case of the man caught having his way with a goat the head Mullah did the only decent thing he made the man marry the goat, now that Mullah had a really great sense of humour don't you think?!.

tjt6768

mellman01 wrote:

No probs me dear boy I'd be old Pierpoint in casses like this no problem,in my eyes certain crimes mean you have gone through a level were you don't have any bloody rights or voice, you should be lucky to be breathing, the victim is forgotten today Liberty and their kind have seen to that that's where Islam has got it right an eye for an eye, or in case of the man caught having his way with a goat the head Mullah did the only decent thing he made the man marry the goat, now that Mullah had a really great sense of humour don't you think?!.

Do you think they will have kids?? :???: :shock:

suncatcher

This i am not suprised about it. I worked in care and its all money. the people who care are the most unlikely of caring people. I think they were in it for money sometimes. and there are people who are good carers. The inspections need to be tougher. I dread when i have to go in a home.

joanlawson

I'm bumping up this thread because there's been another report today which highlights the appalling way old people are often treated in some NHS hospitals. ( the ombudsman's Care and Compassion report )

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12464831

Ann Abraham, the Health Service Ombudsman, said the accounts painted a picture of NHS provision that was "failing to meet even the most basic standards of care".

And Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, added the report echoed the findings of research her group had done.

"How many reports do we have to have before anything will change and patients will stop suffering?"

As a nation, we should be ashamed about the way elderly people are being treated, and some urgent action needs to be taken. With an ageing population, this problem is only going to get worse.

Joan

NinaKKang

Shocking. I think that even if one person is neglected, then the whole system has failed. That one person is someone's mum/ dad/ grandparent/ friend etc.

My first job was in a care home, an experience I don't like to think of too often. I was only 17 and some of the things I saw go on there still break my heart.

Nxx

coco67

i used to be a home carer and some of the things i saw were atrosious and a lot if it was at the hands of "family" our elderly deserve so much better, we can learn so much from them, some of the tales ive heard have made me blush or cry laffing, they are our forgotton generation and its so sad.

joanlawson

Here's a link to an article which was written by Jenni Murray. It is interesting reading in relation to this thread.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1357422/NHS-elderly-report-We-forgotten-duty-old.html

I also read of this case, which is truly horrific.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357495/Blind-dementia-sufferer-died-drinking-toilet-cleaner-care-home-staff-left-room.html