Democracy and bombs.

mellman01

Well spring is here and it seems we have protest breaking out all over the place including London OK a small minority seem to have got a bit carried away but the majority want only decent living standards and a reasonable existence in old age which their now being told isn’t going to happen as there’s no money, mind you isn’t it odd our protesters will be immediately classed as anarchists but all the others around the world will be freedom fighters only demanding democracy!, well isn’t that what some of our lot are asking for?.
Here we are broke being told to work till we drop due to the banking crisses yet the very bankers are still living it up and getting big bonuses paid with money borrowed in our name, now were also at war but this time it’s a high tech one, each weapon fires costs over a million pounds each and so far we’ve got through a fair few of them.
So what would one nights fighting get you?, well lets put it into perspective, 1 Cruse missile will get you 43 nurses or 10 GP’s for a year, so just think we’ve been firing a fair few of them each night, I haven’t even thought about the cost of getting all the planes people etc into theatre to fire the dam things in the first place, I’m sorry II don’t have all the other figures to hand but lets say it’s a lot of socially useful things we’re now being told we can’t have as were broke..
Now that said we can’t have guns coz we are only allowed to sell them so we can’t start a real political shift so all we can do is collectively complain, but it makes you wonder who is living under a democracy when even after a million people march against the last war got totally ignored.
And in the end you can kill people with bullet but you can also restricted the amount of medical treatment they can have, you can also work them and or freeze them to death it makes no difference in the long run but the sick and ill aren't a problem if this happens as they tend to die in the shadows so the state saves each time one of them clocks it , the similarity here is both types of leader kills you but by different means. A true mature democracy would avoid war at all costs and look after it’s people with decency and respect it would also listen to them rather than treat them as a source of income and nothing else. It would aslo never contemplate going around the world beating others up for what they have while dressing it up as some kind of violent bassed form of assistance especially when it was them/us who sold them all the weapons in the first place!, there's a link here I sure of it!?.

joanlawson

I just read that the cost to British taxpayers of fighting, diplomacy and reconstruction in Afghanistan and Iraq since the 9/11 attacks has passed £20 billion. :shock: :shock: :shock:

It certainly makes you think what a shocking waste war is when all that money could have been put to better use.

mellman01

Hi Joan thanks for replying, I looked at my post this morning and thought it was a bit sloppy for me but you got my point spot on, how can we spend this kind of money that they borrow in our name and blow up things and people around the world while our schools hospitals and infrastructure is allowed to rot while the vandals who destroyed our banking system are still in the casion with more money again borrowed in our name again, were bloody doomed if we don't sort things out honestly I fear for the future it's not going to be an easy road ahead.
if there aern't jobs then what?, more borrowing more rioting and more wars to distract us all?.
Sadly democracy is dead here I fear, you can march all you like just so long as you pay your ever increasing taxes work till you drop and don't break anything no one will listen to you and they wonder why the youth get all upset and riot, it's this very group of people who are forcing change in the Arab world right now,the youth have the energy and balls to force change even when they face death as in Libya, without them the whole world would be under a jack boot for ever, after all it was the young who shouldered the burden of WW2 yet now their old and infirm and now being stiffed by the politicians and political system who promissed them "a land fit for hero's" and not a cold painful death in a damp dim room with no heating and little food, the whole bloody system is rotten in my eyes. We always have money for weapons but none for the things that we all need to have a decent modern life. We shouldn't have to fight for the scraps as we are doing in the 21st century.

oneday

Theres been no replies to this for a few hours so i guess everyone is on a march.
Why arent the oil rich arab countries not being seen to be "helping out" in libya?...just european countries with their financial problems?
whys the uk first friends with such rulers then when it suits decide to help topple them?

noeltone

It reminds me of union days no one wanted to protest and join in but they all wanted the benefits won or not

livinglegend

Who said that democracy costs nothing? Democracy is that if you don't like the lot that is in government, then you get the chance to vote them out on a regular basis. To complain peacefully about the lot who were voted in because we disagree with their policies is also a part of democracy, as many do on this very forum.

However, I believe that MPs should set an example on how cuts should be made and their numbers reduced from 650 down to 200. That would save us £Billions and clear many of our financial problems in one stroke.

PS. Democracy has never been 'free', it is paid for with the blood of patriots.

mellman01

I'm with you Len let them sort it out lets look after our own for once, if morals are the big thing here why did we stand back and let a million people get hacked to death in Rwanda, no more Cambodias so they said well we've stood back and let it go on look at Zim no oil no action Gadaffi is like Sadam a weak oil rich dictator that's why were in there it's got little to do with "democracy" really Cameron like every PM I have lived under wanted a war so he got one, where do we go from here Saudi Arabia Yemin Zimbabwe, what about Sudan for isnance we have stood back thei as well while 400,000 people have been murdered, and what about Africa??. the list in endless, one sure thing is if your oil rich and no one likes you ie Sadam and Gadaffi your in the firing line so best not upset to many people?.

Airwave!

I watched some of the officers from the arab states in training, in order to complete the course, they had to do a 6 mile run, they all came out in their best, most expensive gym clothes, tracksuits and flashy trainers, they pulled, stretched and generally warmed up and then started the race.

They all whizzed off and the first ones started to drop out. This lack of commitment carried on, it was a comedy show, the best dressed show on earth, all in the knowledge that their UK trainers would fail them, they just didn't care. Not one of them did complete the race or course.

Would you trust these soldiers to back you up on a battlefield?? Despite being recently trained by our SAS (as part of the Blair deal), I doubt if the Libyan soldiers are much better, judging by the recent reports from there.

8) Its a grin, honest!

mellman01

On one of the BBC reports they said the rebels he was with had run out of ammo as they fired it all up in the air and as for them being all show and no go my gramps was a desert rat and he said the same all p*&s and wind really, thing is they are to fragmented and too easily fired up, they are all sttod around shouting god is great and genrally ventilating the sky with no idea of desert warfare ie dispearse and hide, I also wonder if Gadaffi is putting some old tanks out for us to kill to drain our supplies and genrally mess us about, reality is if he keeps his main kit in the cities close to civillian housing and stays put in his strong holds he can probably hang on and we will get kind of stuck in a sand pit, time might be on his side ya never know. and we can only do so much and starving him out isn't in the deal. But that said old rubber face has made many enimies so I'm not sure of the level of help he can expect from those countries next to him.

mellman01

Oh I almost forgot guess who's come to dinner here today?, the North Korean’s!, a country that is said to have starved a million of it's own to death due to famine yet still found the cash to acquire nuclear weapons illegally, and lets not forget a country that recently sank a South Korean Naval ship with a torpedo and shelled a South Korean town killing civilians, yet here we are at war on one hand with a nutty dictator yet on the other our government is brown nosing another loon on the other!, how ironic is that!?. I wonder if it's due to the hope of a bit of trade is in the offing if they can be persuaded open up to the west I mean just think of all the weapon systems we can sell them!, well it's not about oil has they don't have any, it’s this total hypocrisy that sticks in my throat one lot can murder and do other nasty things and other get picked on whole sale.
And as I sit here listening to the 6pm news on BBC radio 4 says that the UN has detected flickers or signs of Al-Qaeda activity within the rebel groups so old rubber face might have been right this time.
As the old saying goes why change things isn’t it bad enough already?, change forced at to faster pace can create a dangerous vacuum that others who are let's say not nice people will quite happily exploit.

Airwave!

The trick card he has up his sleeve is world opinion, UN couldn't organise a brewery visit let alone agree amongst themselves what to do next, the next move is his!

I agree, he will do anything to survive until we give up, opinion changes, we run out of steam or the next option for us is too difficult a choice for us to take i.e. troops on the ground or a 'oops did that bomb fall on that gadaffi man? oh dear......he's all deaded'

Its a grin, honest!

mellman01

The thing is it's all coming undone, now were going to arm them funny thing is were the second biggest arms dealer in the world?, if it all does go right which I don't think it will what's the betting well be right in their with our banks leading the charge to loand them shed loads so they can repair what we've paid to blow up!.
Hey I see on the news the rebels are going backwards faster than they went forwards with our air power giving them false hope,Gadaffi must be laughing his sox off, now William "the Mekong" Hauge has expelled 5 Libyan's as they are a "security risk", oh please it's pathtic that this kind of childish propaganda is still used here on us in the 21st century.
Says a lot about the state of our so called political system these day's, they don't have a bl&*y clue and no common sense,all they see is money oil and power, now it's coming apart and the whole place is at war and it looks like were going arm them up which is not what the UN mandate 1974 was about, so another illegal UK sponsered war, dont' you just love British style democracy!.

Airwave!

Yes, the whole idea is a bit ragged around the edges, just doesn't take on the form of a well thought out foreign policy plan does it, rather a series of events and another series of disconnected kneejerk reactions with everyone going off in different directions.

What happens when you've armed them and they don't know diddly squat, do you train them, do you put forces in place to tell them how to deploy the arms, do you take them away when they decide to do something else rather than what you want?

What happened to all the statesmen?

8) Its a grin, honest!

mellman01

And what's the old saying about a country repeating mistakes if it ignores history?, we went through this with the Soviet Afghan war where the old saying the enemies enemy is my friend proved to be seriously wrong, we backed the Afghan's and supplied kit to the nasty buggers as nice people don't fight wars one was a Mr Bin Laden and others who went on to form the Taliban and we got 9/11 and the now religious hot war also the US are still trying to figure out where the spare 400 odd Stinger missiles went,(hey guy's I'll give ya a clue then went to Iran ok?).
Now we have Cameron wanting to kit out the rebels, stupid idea really unless you have strong influence with the oposition and no redicals in the mix, lets see what pans out, either way it's not over just yet that's for sure, but the Condems have lost my support, there has been NO joined up thinking at all here so I have little hope there will be any logical leadership and decissions made on the domestic front, I will never vote main stream again.

Airwave!

I doubt very much whether either main party would do anything different, they all concentrate on home affairs. More to the point why are we borrowing money to fight a war? Now we've got to bail out Ireland, again and most likely Portugal and everyone else who've been too free with the shekels. Sounds like a loser to me!

If you want to talk about arming your next enemy go back a few more years and think of Russia and before that to get a historical record of how not to do it.

I do agree about the main parties, it is their own party interest that gets them every time and only a solid leader will change that, I certainly haven't got the patience to wait for that, they don't come along that often, the greens can have my vote next time.

8) Its a grin, honest!