Imagine this

joanlawson

In the future, teachers will have to work until they are 66 to qualify for their pensions, instead of being able to retire at 60 as at present. I have a vision of the future, with our schools full of all these older, burnt-out teachers, struggling to meet all the demands of the job on a daily basis.

As anyone who has ever tried teaching will tell you, it's a probably one of the most stressful and exhausting jobs, so I can't imagine how people will find the necessary energy required at that age. Also, they will be blocking the jobs for the young teachers who would be cheaper to employ anyway.

Children need teachers who have boundless energy and enthusiasm, not teachers who are exhausted and marking time to retirement. I think it's the children who will be the losers in the long run.

Joan

cthornley

Personally I think we need to stop looking at this in black and white terms
People will have to work longer as lifespans increase its just a fact of life – it is unsustainable to have huge retirement period with working life remaining the same,
Pensions haven’t been set up smart enough to deal with this but deal with this, we must, unfortunately there isn’t a never ending pot of money (damn!!)
We need to be smarter about this and more flexible, changing how we employ people as they get older so that they suit the jobs and the jobs suit them
Some 65yr olds are young and lively , others less so, the same goes for 35 yr olds – we must adapt for the individuals and change the way we work and how we retire, this applies to all jobs not just teaching. Teaching and Teachers will need to change to reflect this, it can be done, I’m sure of it but it needs to be done slowly and gradually with thought and care (so the polititians probably need to butt out)

Sorry if I’m treading on any toes here but I don’t accept that teachers have the most stressful or exhausting jobs, yes it is stressful & exhausting but there are actually loads of jobs that fall into this category, teaching is just one of them! – I wish teachers wouldn’t highlight this I don’t think it helps their case to the wider public.
I do however have the utmost respect for teachers, I couldn’t do it but I think that like most professions there are some outstanding ones, some rubbish ones and a lot of variation in-between. They are a precious resource as we entrust our children to them, and as such the education of future generations. Although I understand the need for changes I don’t like how the current government is going about making them as it is a very blunt way of dealing with a complex problem and amounts to changing the deal part way through...not fair!
However they must also accept there is a problem and we need to deal with it somehow – we just need to be cleverer about it (I don’t know what this is , it’s not my speciality). Unfortunately I don’t think we have anybody in charge who understands this.

I have a private pension (private sector employee) which I won’t receive until I’m 67, (so I may not be the most sympathetic audience) mind you I’m the kind of person that will probably totter on doing something til I pop my clogs, :roll:
I have a v. Stressful and demanding job with lots of responsibility (life / death and huge amounts of money), long hours, minimal holiday and bugger all pay...why do I do it? because I love it, and I’m guessing that’s why a lot of teachers do it to....as I said its a complex problem, it will require a cleverer solution (now all we need is some cleverer politicians )

Oh dear I’ve gone off on a political rant here sorry sorry sorry .... it’s just a frustrating subject that has got a bit us and them, recently. With everybody polarised one way or another, I just think it’s not black and white. Its more shades of grey than that , like life really.
Chrissie

dachshund

Hi Joan.
i can see it teacher's over 66 going into schools on mobility scoota's they have arther and they have a job to walk
they cannot keep the class occupied as they have ache's and pain's and need there meds that they didnot take after breakfast
they are all hot and bothered waiting for the day to end.
sorry if it's wrong but i know with my arther i could not do it.
joan xx

barbara12

Joan
Its disgraceful...they spend all of our money...then tell people they wont get there pensions till they are 66..what about the politicians and there pensions...wonder if the same will apply...then again they have a cushy job...so they could and can work till they are 90 :roll:

cthornley

dachshund wrote:

Hi Joan.
i can see it teacher's over 66 going into schools on mobility scoota's they have arther and they have a job to walk
they cannot keep the class occupied as they have ache's and pain's and need there meds that they didnot take after breakfast

Ah but if this is the case we should be supporting people suffering from health difficulties with proper support....it’s a different matter from pensions
Not everybody suffers with difficulties post 60...my father and my father in law both are working past 60 and are both very fit and active individuals,
my MIL is also in good health and only retired from being a plumber at 60 because her van broke down and she couldn’t be bothered to get another one
FIL works in education and doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon
My point - It really depends on the individual, I'm 32 and decreped , how do I fit in that equation?

Funnily enough the politicians pension scheme is very generous – amazing how they keep quiet about that!!!

Unfortunately the pension crisis is not so much about the current dire state of our economy (that has just brought it to a head at this point in time) but a simple question of maths
Most countries with public pension schemes are facing difficulties due to an ageing population (bigger drain) and falling birth rate (smaller support) – we (the government) should have been thinking about this for some time, we haven’t and now we’re facing deficits that we can’t afford compounded by the financial crisis – hence the current sledgehammer approach
It’s made worse by the cuts to every service left right and centre which if they were better considered could actually cushion the effect and help people with support to allow them to work longer/ differently or without rampant inflation wiping out any chance of saving privately.
I’m half wondering if the cuts to the social care and NHS budgets are a sneaky way of eliminating the problem by reducing the aging population (I wouldn’t put it past some people in politics to have at least thought of this )

sorry i really will shut up now

joanlawson

Hi Crissie

I agree with you that some teachers will still be fit and lively at 66, but I believe that many more will struggle to keep up with the job. I didn't say that teaching is the most stressful and exhausting job, but that it is certainly one of the most demanding, both physically and mentally. It's also the job which carries the most responsibility for the future of the nation's children- quite a tall order!

My concern is that teachers will have no option but to carry on working whether they still feel capable of doing a good job or not. It might not be too bad if a teacher is in a school in a good area, but can you imagine coping with large classes in some of the more difficult inner-city areas? I had a long career in teaching, and many of my friends are retired teachers and headteachers; a more dedicated and hard-working group of people you couldn't wish to meet, but the thought of carrying on teaching to 66 would have filled us with horror. I don't know what the solution to the pensions problem is, but I feel sorry for the children if their teachers have to struggle on to retirement at an older age.

joanlawson

rehab44 wrote:

We live in a throw away society everything is being replaced with plastic including money and people

We have plastic policemen... PCSO's

We will have a plastic Army, regukar soldiers replaced by TA
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13985025

Why not plastic teachers, i.e classroom assistants

If the manpower in the public service costs too much then replace it with plastic!

Nurses replaced by domestics, Surgeons and Doctors are already being replaced by the non trained oversees variety
We can save millions lets all get out there and cheer for Brother Dave

Hi rehab
It certainly seems that this is the way things are going. If teachers have to keep working to 66, they'll be more like soggy blotting paper than plastic :roll:

joanlawson

dachshund wrote:

Hi Joan.
i can see it teacher's over 66 going into schools on mobility scoota's they have arther and they have a job to walk
they cannot keep the class occupied as they have ache's and pain's and need there meds that they didnot take after breakfast
they are all hot and bothered waiting for the day to end.
sorry if it's wrong but i know with my arther i could not do it.
joan xx

Hi Joan

I can see it now- the geriatrics' corner of the staffroom, complete with zimmer frames and blood pressure monitors ( they'll need the latter :roll: )

dreamdaisy

I cannot dispute that teachers do have a challenging job, but they are amply rewarded for it in terms of both money and holiday. 13 weeks off per year? Yes, yes, I know the better ones amongst their number work in the holidays too, but I came across a fair few in my teaching days whose first action, on the first day back, was to count up the number of days until the next break and cross off the working days one by one as the term progressed.

I have to confess that I do feel rather cynical about the standard of teaching now, probably because I spend my professional life working with those that have been failed by teacher after teacher in the school system. I met a classic case on Thursday at 11am (her school was closed by strikers). She is 10.04, with a reading age of 6.10 and a spelling age of 7.2. This is utterly, utterly disgraceful and not uncommon. Her parents have been told again and again that their daughter will 'learn when she is ready'. The parents knew that something was seriously amiss and have tried and tried to get the school to listen as well as trying to help their girl themselves. Well, I'm on board now, I know the route I will take with her (any diversions will be explored) and I happily predict that in six months time, when both her reading and spelling have improved, the school will turn round and say 'See? We told you she would do it in her own time.' Yes, she will be doing it in her own time.

This girl, and many like her, have been failed by inadequate teaching, inadequate teachers, an inadequate system and appalling complacency. GBS was both very right, and very wrong, in his assessment of the role and skill of a teacher. DD

frogmorton

Maybe a good start would be getting them in school longer than 9-3

My kids and this is secondary.

A full day's work is not what they are used to.

valval

to be honest i do not feel for teachers at all.
i have done heavy work so has my oh in factory's(our choice we never stayed on at school was not the done thing here) the work my oh did was so heavy even in his late 40s it was getting to much for him and when made redundant he often asks if i feel he should go back to it as we would be much better off but i would rather protect his health than have money to throw around.
there are a lot of jobs out there that do not have such long holidays even if they have to work in them i get 4 weeks that it some days work harder than others but will not get any where near the pension they do.
the ones who's pension does need cutting back our the politicians who get pension on leaving politics then also go into private work and build one up there.
i have a pension from local government can not work out what paper work means it either £149.00 a year or in total sure will find out when it comes time to retire i do not wish to upset any one but from where i stand looking up at teachers with no good thoughts of them was a dinner lady for 5 years and lolly pop lady helped out in junior school so have met plenty of teachers most of whom i did not feel could teach a dog tricks a good teacher is worth its weight in gold but most of them are let go because they cost more in wages val

ichabod6

I wouldnt want my grand children being taught by old dodderers.
If a teacher cant teach with care and enthusiasm they should quit, at
whatever age they reach this critical stage.
Teaching started to go backwards and ceased being a profession
when it formed its trade unions and this reflects in the sorry state
of the present educational standards and achievements.

pheebs

Hi everyone,

It's the Scottish Government who pay my wages and I'm sorry to say that means I'm in the same boat as the teachers. But, it's a fact of life that everyone is living longer and we just have to accept that changes have to be made, although a bit more warning would have been a help!!

When I left work to have my first child I took back the superannuation I'd paid because I decided to stay at home with my baby - a decision I don't regret - and went back to work when he was 9 and his brother was 6. I didn't start paying pension contributions until 11 years ago and now if I decide to retire at 60 I get the princely some of £250 per month!! And I won't get state pension until I'm 66 so I have to stay where I am - in a stressful job (no less stressful than a teacher) where children's lives are at risk. There have been staff cutbacks and, like teachers, a pay
freeze. I suppose you could say I should have thought more about the future - perhaps I should have. The ex-husband left, married his bit on the side, is now retired and his new wife brings in a nice fat salary each month.

I'm lucky I have a decent home and suppose I could always sell it but it's my home and I'd probably have to put as much into another place.

So................I may not like the situation, but I'm so glad I have a job, despite the stresses and exhaustion it brings. And a word to teachers (no offense Joan) you're not the only ones in this situation.

Pheebs