ra and lupus

mig

have been reading muffys post and realised ra and lupus are both auto immune deseases,several years ago i had big red blotches on my back gp didnt know what they were and sent me to the skin clinic,blood tests were negeative but bi-opsey showed lupus,didnt understand it at the time how can one thing show it and another not,blotches cleared up with steroid cream and have not returned,i find it very confusing any clues anyone?Mig

flowerpot

Interesting you should mention this, my GP still thinks I am more a candidate for lupus or ME than RA but nothing has shown up in my bloods yet. I wonder if there is such a thing as sero negative lupus, the same as RA?

Starburst

Lupus is a very complex condition and apparently can take years to diagnose. According to the various drs I've spoken to, seronegative lupus is very rare. With lupus, there are quite a few tests and if they're all negative but you have all the symptoms, it's unlikely you'll be diagnosed with lupus. However, it doesn't mean you won't develop it, just that it takes time to affect different bodily systems and/or show up in blood tests. Unfortunately, you can have both RA and lupus. I'm think there are a few people on here with both, so hopefully they'll pop along and offer some pearls of wisdom.

As far as I know, with RA, they mainly use anti-CCP, Rheumatoid factor and consider inflammatory markers but I had a full set of bloods for lupus; ANA, ENA, anti-DNA, anti-RO, C3 and C4. There are more but these are the ones I remember off the top of my head.

All the best,
Sophie x
My current rheum says I have seronegative RA but my previous one wasn't convinced. He told me he predicted that in 10 years or so, I'd end up with a lupus diagnosis.

In my opinion, the best person to speak to is your rheumatologist or rheumatology nurse. I've found that GPs have very little knowledge of complex autoimmune disorders.

RA2010

Hi - I have been diagnosed with both due to blood tests mainly (and joint pain which is common to both). I tested positive on anti-CCP, ANA and anti DNA, however rheumy feels that my symptoms are more RA than lupus and said treatments for one are usually suitable for the other. He is treating me for RA as obviously this needs stronger meds to prevent joint damage and the meds are supposed to also help lupus.

The thing I find confusing though is that so many of the RA meds cause symptoms similar to lupus, so not sure how you tell as time goes on which one is causing problems! I've had so many side effects due to my meds (low blood counts particularly lymphocytes, and more recently severe photosensitivity) and have that as my next question for next rheumy visit - how to tell what's meds and what's lupus!

suzygirl

Hi there are more than one type os lupus. SLE is systemic lupus, which shows in bloods. DLE is discoid lupus affecting only the skin and SCLE which is subacute cutaneous lupus affecting skin. Also a few rare types such as tumid lupus and a few others.

It sounds as though you were diagnosed with a skin type of lupus in the past. This is important diagnostically for your current symptoms. A good dermy would do bloods etcand may be able to help you now.

RA and Lupus is fairly common, it is classified as Rhupus. Often these AI disorders go hand in hand and you can also get crossovers. It all makes it very difficult to diagnose.

RA2010, the meds should aslo be preventing the lupus from attacking the internal organs. Anti ds dna is pretty specific for lupus, re you at least on plaquenil for the lupus?

Sero negative lupus is rare but possible. The other alternative is that the symptoms are showing before the bloods turn positive.

Please feel free to PM me if you need any more lupus info, not sure what links allowed to post. I have plenty of info, if you need any.

mig

Thanks suzygirl,I have appointment with rhemmy next week will talk to her and see what she has to say.Mig

RA2010

Thanks suzygirl - yes plaquenil was first med I went on a year ago, and have been on since. I saw rheumy today and discussed with him - he said the same thing that plaquenil would help any lupus symptoms (including photosensitivity if it's caused by SLE), although said that from the majority of symptoms that I've shown I seem to be more RA than SLE. Re the photosensitivity he said it is very likely that it is being caused by my anti-inflam (Etodolac), so is changing that for now to see how things go (said it's best to change one thing at a time so we can see what is causing issues)...he did also say that most of the RA meds would be helping SLE anyway, but the only thing I may need added if things did appear to be more lupus related would be to add an oral steroid...did have an injection today as that really helped last time, and in fact just after that I spent a week in Spain with no photosensitivity!

suzygirl

Hi RA2010. Glad to hear you had a good chat with your rheumy. You need to be wearing sunfactor50, all lupus patients get it prescribed. Sunsense is the one I use, it is good. The sun, unfortunately is our enemy, it causes the inflammation to worsen, so prolonged sun exposure is not a good idea. Whilst your rheumy may be good, he is not a lupus expert.

Lots of meds causes photosensititvity, which is why it is even more important to have good uva protection.

RA can cause joint damage, but lupus can cause all sorts of problems.

Take care