Knee pain while trying to sleep

Beatrix

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I'm waiting for my x-ray appointment to hopefully have a diagnoses. For two months now my left knee has been very painful and is swollen. It suddenly started hurting with no warning that anything was going wrong and now my right knee is showing signs of going the same way. My elbows started hurting about 2 months prior to my knees but I thought maybe it was tennis elbow but now think its connected.

I am taking Co-codamol and Iobrufen but I'm waking up several times at night because of the pain in my left knee. I only have to move the knee joint a little, it becomes very painful and wakes me up. I can cope so far with some discomfort but its getting hard to cope when I get that awful shooting/burning pain. Strangly my knees arn't stiff in the morning and can get moving straight away although there is discomfort.

I keep finding messages about a connection between under-active thyroid (diagnosed 3 years ago) and the Menopause (showing signs) and RA. My elder brother has RA which started at the age of 37. My knee doesn't go red, its just swollen and painful so not sure if its OA or RA . I know I need to be patient and wait for my diagnoses but the pain, especially at night is getting me down. I'd be so grateful of any tips. One thing that helps my knee short term and leaves me almost pain free for about an hour, is having a warm bath but thats it. I'm 50 next month so what a great start to my 50's lol sometimes having a laugh helps but I must admit, the pain is getting me down.

jilly

Hi Beatrix , I have the same problem as you I have OA then started with underactive thyroid , then I started with RA so I think it is all connected . I am seeing the specialist on Thursday about having my knee replaced . I have already had a knee and a hip replaced .
I have trouble sleeping and like you I find heat helps I use a wheat bag it only helps for a short time though. I cant walk at the moment with the pain so I think it is time I had it done but to be honest I am not keen . i hope you get some answers from the doctors . They say it runs in families so it could turn out to be RA . It is worrying waiting for them to diagnose things but you will get it sorted so keep your chin up. If i can answer any questions PM me if you want . all the best jillyx

ironic

Hi Beatrix,

Welcome to the forum, I am sorry that you have had to join though. It does take time to get a proper diagnosis and I know it is very frustrating for you.
I have RA and at the moment only a touch of OA in my finger. It is the constant pain and lack of sleep that wears you down. Have you tried using a pillow to cushion your knees at night?
Most of us have been prescribed an anti-inflammatory medication which I have found very helpful. Could you ask your GP if this is an option for you?

Thyroid or the menopause can make diagnosis even more difficult as I would think that those would have to be eliminated as causes first?
I am like you as mostly I do not have the redness or heat in my joints but as you are finding out we are all different.

I hope your appointment comes through soon.

Lv, I x

Beatrix

Thank you Jilly and I'm so sorry your in such alot of pain. I hope the appointment with the specialist goes ok on Thursday for you. I can only imagine how weary you are of it all and I hope you get some relief very soon.

I don't have a wheat bag but could try my hot water bottle to see if that helps.
My mum has had an over active thyroid so it does sound like it could all be connected. Both my parents also have Osteoporosis.

Thank you Lv, I will try using a pillow. I start off trying to sleep on my side with my knees not touching each other but of course that can change when I'm sleeping so a pillow I'm sure will help.

I'm due to see my GP again early November so will ask her about pain relief and a good anti-inflammatory.

After reading many post, I can see how caring and supportive members are and I'm sure I will find alot of knowledge and support here

Btw, sorry I should have mentioned, my name is Jackie, my username is after my guinea pig Beatrix

Jackie x

skezier

Hi Jackie,

Welcome to the forum from me as well.

I wholeheartedly agree pillows and maybe a wedge might help whie you wait for a diagnosis..... it can be frustration and hard to wait for the firm diagnosis but in the mean time maybe a chat with the gp for a different tablet routine might also help?

They tend to start with one thing and it doesn't always work so you have to change to something else and it can be a bit of trail and error till you find what works well for you.

Hang in there and hopefully the xray will help show whats going on. Nice to met you. Cris xx

dreamdaisy

Hello Beatrix, you poor thing, I utterly sympathise as I have the same problems with both knees and now my ankles. My arthritis started with a very hot and HUGELY swollen left knee (it was all above the kneecap and 27" round before an operation occurred!) and I have slept with a pillow (lengthwise from ankle to groin) for years now. I am currently using a combined memory foam/firm polyester stuffed one and it's pretty good at keeping the affected joints apart. I am lucky in that I can no longer turn over in my sleep so if I do need to move I wake up and make the necessary adjustments - mind you pain wakens me on a regular basis too. My bedroom is often a hive of activity what with pillow shifting, duvet adjusting and mopping up/down with a bathtowel (meds related hot flushes :roll: ) Gawd knows how Mr DD manages to sleep like a baby throughout - but he does.

I also think you could ask your GP about an anti-inflammatory of some kind, and if he agrees then also mention a stomach protector, as the two should go hand-in-hand. As for pain relief, well I don't find heat any good for either my PA or OA so I don't bother, I just knock back a couple of co-codamol and carry on with what I can manage. I hope things improve for you soon, please keep in touch and let us know how you get on. DD

tjt6768

Hi Jackie. Welcome from me too. I hope that you can get done better meds soon. Sound like you need them.
Are you being referred to a specialist yet? Sorry if you're already said.. I've no memory whatsoever. Lol
I also use a pillow between the knees, in fact I have two five foot feather bolsters that I use.. As with DD, have no idea how Mrs T puts up with it..
I've got OA and probably RA in mi knees, RA in my wrists, hands etc..

Best of luck hun.. Keep posting

Mat48

Hi Jackie, welcome to this forum I am quite new too and find it an excellent way to communicate anxieties and get advise and reassurance so you're in the right place!

I have had the same thing with knees waking me in the night on and off. I had a month where most of the joint pain disappeared but I was still waking in the night with my right knee in agony - locked and then unlocking as I moved about. Now it's the wrists and fingers and I've had it with ankles and shoulders too. It's not usually as bad in the morning although I'm typing now to try and get fingers moving because both sets are pretty stiff each morning just now.

When I told GP about night waking with painful knees he frowned and told me that was due to inflammation and I needed to up my dose of ibuprofen to maximum - he prescribed (free prescriptions here in Scotland lucky me!) 400 tablets so I take 3 a day now at mealtimes. Tummy hasn't been unduly affected yet and I only take codeine (15mg) and Amitriptyline (10mg) at night and if things are really bad a dram of whisky too! Not been diagnosed yet but thinking this is probably RA because I've got a family history of autoimmune diseases including gout, diabetes and RA. Also peri-menopausal and also hypothyroid so having blood tests taken again for all these plus inflammatory markers next week. Have tried to put it all down to the thyroid and the meno several times but with the level of pain and immobility and a positive rheumatoid factor its just not quite adding up but here's hoping..!? Mat

GraceB

Hi Jackie,
I'm new to the forum but I can sympathise as I have OA in both of my knees, one of which has been partially replaced (I'm 46).
If you are able to get in/out of a bath how about trying a hot soak in the before going to bed?
I'm currently on Tramadol topped up with paracetamol but sometimes they don't even do the job for me. I think - as the other posts - that your GP needs to change your meds. When I wake at night with the pain Sometimes I try to stretch my joints out and if that doesn't help then I get some heat onto them.
I find that alternating hot and cold can help at times; other times I just crave heat.
I hope you can get some more effective meds sorted out soon. Take care, Grace.

skezier

Hi Grace,

Welcome to the forum as well. Nice to meet you to. Cris x

frogmorton

Hi Jackie

Bless you lass lack of sleep is so draining.

I find if l have had enough sleep l can cope with most things in the day.

I agree with the others.

I place any sore bits on pillows so ease them and take painkillers/anti-inflams last thing to aid sleep. Minimises pain when turning in your sleep. I also have amitriptyline to take at night which really does help.

Your ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory, but it could be worth trying a different one. There are also some meds which you can take slow release to make sure you are in as little pain as possible over night.

You take care you will eventually get to diagnosis.
Love and hugs

Toni xx

hileena111

Hi Jackie
Welcome from me as well.
I have OA...no RA so not a lot of help.....Its my hips not knees.
I was going through a bad time after my THR of not sleeping and they tried different things. {not sleeping because i was waking up with pain} Eventually slow release naproxen seemed to do the trick as far as nights were concerened. Still not brilliant but not waking up in pain the way I used to.

Love
Hileena

stlucia

I'm sorry you are having pain. I haven't been able to read through all your other replies so someone might have already suggested these things - how about a pillow between your knees at night if you lie on your side, Deep Freeze gel (really helps me a lot) and wheat bags to put in the microwave and heat up.

I hope that you find some relief soon.

Lucy x

suzygirl

Hi, knee pain does really keep you awake. You have already been given good tips. When going through a really bad bout of it, I bought a support bandage and a shaped heat pad for my knee. Both were really useful. Pillows and topical nsaid gel and freeze gel also helped. I was using it all to be honest.

I hope you get some relief, and that your appt goes well.

Beatrix

Thank you so much everyone for the lovely warm welcome and for your advice and support, I really do appreciate it.

I only woke up twice in 5 hours during last night and used a pillow. I think I often turn in my sleep and find that my left knee doesn't like going sideways, seems to provoke the sharp pains. If I'm awake before I turn I've found that if I straighten my leg and keep it straight until I've turned over, that can help a little.

Mat, good luck with your next blood tests. Both my elder brother and my mum have autoimmune diseases and my other elder brother has Spondylitis. The more I read the more I think there is a connection. My under-active thyroid isn't stable right now so have to keep having blood tests to check it. Now on 150mg Levothyroxine. So will ask if they can check for signs of RA when I next have my blood tested. I also don't pay for my perscriptions with having a thyroid problem but I'd rather pay and not have a thyroid problem lol

Grace, thank you, I will try having a bath just before going to bed, maybe the affects will last longer if I'm off my feet.

D D, My gp has given me a stomach protector for the iobrufen that I'm taking but maybe I need a slow releasing pain killer like Toni has suggested for night time. My elder brother takes Tramadol and Co-Codomal so will mention Tramadol to my gp.

tjt6768, I'm waiting to have an x-ray done on my left knee but might have to ask my GP if they could do both knees as my right is showing signs but not as severe. Both my elbows are getting worse to. I did read that with RA, it can affect twin joints.

Lucy and Suzy, I will try the gels you mentioned, thank you.

I have walked a bit too far today as I'm trying to loose weight to hopefully help my knees and both my knees are hurting more so I might be in for a rough night tonight.

tjt6768

Well best of luck with everything mi dear.
You've certainly done the right thing joining here, it's been an absolute Godsend for me and many others I'm sure I'm safe to say..
Be aware that xrays don't show everything. I had both knees xrayed early this year and my left knee showed los of lose cartilage etc but the right looked ok. I knew myself they were as bad as each other, sure enough, when I had arthroscopies on them both in July (i think) they were just as bad as one another....
Good luck though.. Keep posting, sounds daft but it does help the sanity

theresa4

Hi
I have under active thyroid and sero neg RA and I too have painful knees that wake me up during the night. I too have found a pillow between my knees and ankles helps but doesn't stop me waking up in pain. Between the procedure I've had today and my usual RA pains Im laid here replying to posts as I can't sleep not to mention the pneumatic drill lying beside me completely oblivious to my ows and Ahhs as I thrash about my side of the bed. The only thing that will make me try harder now is my iPhone is out of battery and about to go sleep too :eek: :sad:
Hope you have had a better nights sleep with the tips you got from everyone.

Beatrix

Thank you Tony, like one of my brothers always tells me 'its good to talk Sis' Thanks also for letting me know about x-rays and the fact they don't show up everything.Not sure how long I will have to wait but hopefully its not going to be much longer.


theresa, sorry your knees are waking you up, distracting yourself can help get you through a rough night can't it. I often sit up in bed and read if I can't get back to sleep. Did laugh about the pneumatic drill lying beside you lol

I woke up about a dozen time last night in about 7 hours but some of that might have been me over-doing the walking yesterday. I filled up my fabric hot water bottle last night which was nice. I jokingly told my daughters to set their alarm clock every 3 hours to fill it up with hot water again for me No I want to stay as independant as possible even though my knee's don't like the stairs.

Jackie x

tjt6768

Your brother is spot on Lol
Hope that you manage to get a better sleep pattern going, it can take hours for me to get to sleep sometimes... At one point I was on here at all hours just trying to wear myself out enough that I had no choice but to sleep.
The bolsters really do help though, I would be really lost with out them. I take em everywhere we stay.
I did enquire about amitryptaline recently as I know that helps sleep and also IBS but as I am already on an anti-depressant I can't take them, and the anti-d I am on is the first one that has really worked so don't want to stop taking them to switch.
What a polava

hileena111

Hi
Dont be too surprised if the taramadol has an adverse effect on you.
Just because you brother takes it and is fine???
Sorry...dont mean to be a misery but different tablets work differently with different people.
I know tramadol doesnt work with me....nightmares etc
It may be great for you....I hope so.....Good luck

Love
Hileena

sbolam

Hi, I have OA in both knees and I do wake up alot during the night I take a couple of solpadol before bed so at least I get a couple of hours decent sleep before the tossing and turning starts...I found switching to a softer mattress a real help and I use a double duvet under a fitted sheet to take some of the hardness off and its work quit well.

stephen

hileena111

Hi
Yes forgot about that....I use a double duvet under a fitted sheet as well
It does make a difference
Love
Hileena

sbolam

yes..I was on tramadol for a short while but did nothing for me at all..I was then given solpadol 30/500 and they send me away with the fairys..I also have Acupan for when i just need to take the edge off...(mainly when driving).

Beatrix

Tony, I was up reading my book for a long time last as I just couldn't settle as my left knee has been extra painful, even during the day so keeping yourself distracted can help can't it even though panda eyes are not a good look lol So good that your anti-depressants are working for you, thats great

Hileena, no I do understand that the same tablets can affect people differently and you are not being a misery. My brother also takes Co-Codamol but they aren't doing anything for me. I might have to try a few different meds before settling on something that helps.

Stephen, thank you, I will read up on solpadol, sorry that both your knee's are affected to. My right knee is definatly going the same way.

Jackie x

sbolam

were you on the top strength co-codamols 30/500 as they also come in 8/500 and 15/500 niether of these did squat for me but then I got solpadol which from what I am told is still co-codamol 30/500.

think I am just about getting there, just changing the way I do things makes a huge difference.. splitting the day up and when going out, resting for awhile before and hand..

Beatrix

Hi sbolam, I'm on 8/500. I was taking Iobrufen alternatively with Co-Codamol but am now trying to take Co-Codamol on their own, 2 every 6 hours just to see if I see any improvement. At least by Thursday I can let my gp know if they are taking enough of the severe pain away.

Jackie x