Does what you eat affect your Arthritis ?

thewifie

I’m very new to Arthritis, in fact second hand as it is my husband who has it rather than me so please forgive any ignorance in something which may be so well known to all of you.

I would like to ask, do the foods you eat affect your Arthritis, causing flare ups etc. Are there specific foods to avoid or is it like in Diabetes where we are all different in our reaction to different foods.

I did look for a similar thread but did not see one, if there is a similar one can a mod please move me there, thanks.

stickywicket

If you simply put 'food' into the search engine at the top of the page you'll find quite a few things come up. This is a topic that keeps coming up. The general consensus is a healthy diet helps. As for the rest, we all have different ideas. :roll:

valval

strong cheese does not help mine try to eat foods high in natural anti inflamitory but we all differ val

thewifie

stickywicket wrote:

If you simply put 'food' into the search engine at the top of the page you'll find quite a few things come up. This is a topic that keeps coming up. The general consensus is a healthy diet helps. As for the rest, we all have different ideas. :roll:

Thanks Stickywicket, it is the different ideas I am interested in ! The term 'healthy' diet covers a multitude of sins, especially when you are Diabetic, it can be anything but healthy ! I am looking for things that you have all found out or experienced that can affect your Arthritis.

jillyb1

I avoid dairy , citrus , raw tomato , potatoes , aubergines , alcohol ; I realise that many people on here disagree with me and find no benefit from a restricted diet ; but it definitely works for me . I'm not saying it's cured my RA as after 31 years of this pestilence , I have little movement and rely on my hubby as my full time carer ; but I really notice a big difference if I stray from my set diet . Jillyb

thewifie

Thanks Jill that's the sort of thing I'm after. If I notice him complaining more than usual after some of these foods I can restrict them and see if there is any difference.

Trouble is he already has an amended diet to try and control his diabetes so it will be a bit of a juggling act !

woodbon

Hi, I think that we all have different things that trigger all sorts of pain and illnesses. I seem to find cheese makes my migrains worse or causes them. My nephew can't eat any diary products as they cause him to have diahriea(sp)? So if you can find out something that seems to cause or help your pain. I'd give it a go! Love Sue.

stickywicket

thewifie wrote:

stickywicket wrote:

If you simply put 'food' into the search engine at the top of the page you'll find quite a few things come up. This is a topic that keeps coming up. The general consensus is a healthy diet helps. As for the rest, we all have different ideas. :roll:

Thanks Stickywicket, it is the different ideas I am interested in ! The term 'healthy' diet covers a multitude of sins, especially when you are Diabetic, it can be anything but healthy ! I am looking for things that you have all found out or experienced that can affect your Arthritis.

Sorry, I was a bit pushed for time earlier. Firstly, AC produce a booklet 'Healthy Eating and Arthritis' (see 'Publications & Resorces', top of page). On a personal note, after trying a very restricted diet that was supposed to help RA but only made me feel worse :roll: , I found (When I gave it up) I no longer liked meat so I stopped eating it. This is the one thing that has helped. I do eat a lot of fish though.

thewifie

Thanks for that. When you say meat do you mean red meat or all meat ? He is a dedicated carnivore !

crabtree123

According to Lilla Bek , meat and sugar . However , this seems rather harsh. When I eat meat I do find I have more aches and pains . ( R. A. ) I like lamb. And chocolate .

stickywicket

thewifie wrote:

Thanks for that. When you say meat do you mean red meat or all meat ? He is a dedicated carnivore !

Ah, I'm married to one of them too :roll: Yes, I do mean all meat. Once you stop eating it for a while it tastes horribly sweet. However, it's tough with confirmed carnivores. I can get mine to eat fish twice a week but, for the rest of the time, we either eat the same veggies and different meat/fish or, because I'm not fanatically anti-meat, in a stir fry, for example, I keep the meat chunks big and visible so's I can avoid them.

I've never heard of sugar being a factor, Crabtree, but I guess we all eat too much of it so it wouldn't hurt to try.

Folara

I was told strawberries are a no no food, as I live on a strawberry farm this is gutting and I did ver sadly notice a difference when eating them.

A good food I was told is bananas so I have one for my breakfast but I'm not that convinced.

Sticky is right that it seems to be different things for different people and it's a bit of trial and error.

Fols x

thewifie

Thanks all, sugar is kept to a minimum for both of us because of Diabetes, will have to think hard about the meat though, we have to eat something. We both do eat fish and lots of veggies. Are there any veggies that you avoid ?

Strawberries, oh no ! Just bought a whole punnet of them ! More for me then ! Bananas are banned as they are too high in carbs.
.

stickywicket

There are suggestions that the 'nightshade' group of veggies can influence arthritis adversely. These are essentially potatoes (NOT sweet potatoes), tomatos, aubergines and peppers (including any sauces using peppers). I don't have a problem with these but, just as different meds help different people, so I guess it's possible that different foodstuffs do. I don't think you'd be able to tell anything from just monitoring stuff on a day to day basis though. I think either you cut out certain foodstuffs for at least a month or so to see what happens or don't bother. If you both have diabetes to start with I don't think it'd be a good idea, nutritionally, to restrict your diets too much.

marrianne

Hello the wiffie,I was told to avoid red meat citrus especially tomatoes and processed foods cheese chocolate salt sugar well it just goes on and and on..............................I dont think diet makes a lot of difference on its own it has to be a balance of healthy eating combined with everything else I have been ill for 30 years and nothing I have eaten or not eaten has changed the progress of it however there is nothing else wrong with me Marrianne

Numptydumpty

Hi thewifie, I have tried many diets over the years. Including one which cut out all chocolate, fruit, meat (not fish), dairy produce, chocolate, vinegar, pepper, chocolate, dry roast nuts, alchohol, chocolate, and soft drinks. Oh and chocolate! I kept that one up for 4 months. No change whatsoever to my RA.
I have not eaten meat for nearly 40 years,(I do eat fish) this has nothing to do with my RA, it was just a personal choice, when I was young and healthy.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for, and something to help your husband.
All the best,
Numpty

marrianne

Numptydumpty wrote:

Hi thewifie, I have tried many diets over the years. Including one which cut out all chocolate, fruit, meat (not fish), dairy produce, chocolate, vinegar, pepper, chocolate, dry roast nuts, alchohol, chocolate, and soft drinks. Oh and chocolate! I kept that one up for 4 months. No change whatsoever to my RA.
I have not eaten meat for nearly 40 years,(I do eat fish) this has nothing to do with my RA, it was just a personal choice, when I was young and healthy.
I hope you find the answers you're looking for, and something to help your husband.
All the best,
Numpty[/quoteSpot on Numpty chicken fish fruit veg keep em comeing I wont spoil a lovely salad excluding a poor old tomato ............and I couldnt live without chocolate and a glass of red wine occasionaly.........

AutoimmuneResearcher

Hi Marrianne
I have been controlling my Arthritis with diet since I was 28 - I am now 46.

I have a real passion in trying to establish why I feel better - and why I sometimes (rarely) flare-up.

I might be wrong but people writing on this and other forums do not talk often about diet - mostly I see people discussing which drugs they have had to go on and which was best for them - which gave them the worst/least side-effects.

I have been digging around looking at a lot of the research out there and have formed my own opinion of the relationship between diet and lots of autoimmune conditions.

I am particularly concerned that the "stock" advice from the medical community - in this country, is in a lot of respects at odds with the direction of research. Even this website says follow a balanced diet and uses bread and pasta as example of this - when there is a great deal of research looking at the role of gliadin (wheat protein) induced "leaky gut" and then the randomness of other food intolerence and allergy that can follow. I like you have been reading about this link with diabetes to.

It's not just food - and in some people in wont be food at all. What type of arthritis does your husband have?

Kind regards

AutoimmuneResearcher

Hi Delboy

The bottom line is that research has been done but is then undone by vested interest -

I have AS - and this was taken from the NASS (official Ankylosing Spondylitis website) - quote

"It is difficult to research into diet. When new medicines are tested the researchers might give one group the new medicine and another group a dummy or placebo medicine. Even the doctors treating the patients in the medical trial might not be told which patients are taking the trial medicine and which the dummy medicine so that this knowledge does not influence the results. This is known as a double blind trial. We know from research that double blind trials, in which neither the patient, nor the observer knows which treatment has been given, is the best way to show if a treatment actually works.

However, when researchers experiment with diet and try to look at how diet can influence disease, it is impossible to carry out certain research protocols such as using controls or dummy treatments. Neither the person eating the diet nor the person taking measurements after the diet can be blinded as to which diet has been used. It's also not possible to confirm that someone is sticking rigidly to the diet without any lapses."

In short, the medical powerhouse under the guidance of drugs companies have deemed it "Impossible" to prove that any studies in to diet are scientific. - so evidence based research is a closed shop for drugs trial only.

So at the top of the website page it says follow a high starch diet (based around bread and pasta) - yet at the bottom they take the opportunity to debunk research done by a researcher call Dr. Ebringer that says starches feed the bacteria that exacerbate Arthritis.

Saying that there is good research that is pointing to the same conclusion for autoimmune conditions -

British Medical Journal - Conclusions that the production of cross reactive antibodies is strikingly increased in the gut of many RA patients -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1860040/

Gliadin ilicits a harmful effect - even on non Celiac individuals

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1954879/

Study that gliadin has been implicated in MS -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19758171

I've also been reading about research in Norway and the US in to the interaction of food allergy on Arthritis, especially gliadin.

The presentation of arthritis as the first symptom of celiac (let alone a later symptom or any other dietry allergen) - does occur - search for "Dr. Fasano".

I can see there being a huge sea-change in medicine and a merger between the silo professions of rheumatology and gastroenterology. They should speak to each other! For me the evidence is compelling (especially as I live with it day to day), I can switch my arthritis on like a tap - if you want to say there is no link then sir, you have not done enough research.

Regards

thewifie

AutoimmuneResearcher wrote:

It's not just food - and in some people in wont be food at all. What type of arthritis does your husband have?

I honestly don't know ! :oops: The doctor just said he's got arthritis in his knee.
I am interested in the effects of food as I know what the effects of food on diabetes have. I have successfully controlled my diabetes for 5 years by just being careful with diet and it is interesting that a lot of the foods members say causes flare up are also associated with gout....is there a link ?

AutoimmuneResearcher

Hi thewifie

I have arthritis in my back and ribcage - and used to have it much worse. I also used to have it in my lower back and hips joints, shoulders, fingers and feet.

In my feet I used to get a gouty type big toe and I had developed partial bunion on both feet.

All the problems I used to have stopped when I stopped Wheat, Corn, Barley, Rye and less dairy. It is so hard to stick to - but it has changed my life.

My exact diet will not for all - but diet changes the bacteria in the gut - and antibodies to some "bad" bacteria (that always live in our gut) have been linked to different forms of Arthritis.

Google - "Proteus Mirabilis and Rheumatoid"
or "Klebsiella and Ankylosing Spondylitis"
or "Strep and psoriatic"
or "Strep and Autism"

Our bodies create an immune reaction to these bacteria, but in doing so sets an attack on those tissues in our body that has the same "shape/genetic markers" as these bacteria - As we are all genetically different - the tisue attacked will be different.

The "leaky gut" issue is beyond the core disease - and may be present in some but not in others. and is responible for the continuing cycle of disease.

I came across an interesting radio blog from some enlightened doctors in the US - it is a bit long and "very American " but interesting if your interested in autoimmune - I am pro-NHS but when I listen to this reasoned, radio debate born out of there non-NHS system I do wonder..... we are at the tip of an iceberg -

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2011/01/11/detecting-gluten-sensitivity-with-dr-thomas-obryan

thewifie

Ineresting that many Type 1 diabetics, which is also an autoimmune condition also find they have a sensitivity to gluten in wheat etc. There are those that argue that we are not evolved to cope with grains etc and that's why we get these reactions. I know we are all different in how we cope with certain foods so I will just keep an eye on what he eats and hope that something helps !

AutoimmuneResearcher

Hi all

If anyone is looking for some inspiration, you might want to read some of the success stories on kick-as (has lots of posters from around the world) about controlling their AS, and some with RA -

http://www.kickas.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=7&page=1

All very interesting....

theresa4

HI Autoimmune researcher

I have been gluten/wheat free for 12 years I have had RA for 6, Ive spent a fortune on research, alternative health and this cure or that. Im now skint and worse off than before. Im not saying I dont have health benfits from not eating gluten/wheat as I dont get the severe heatburn and burping for hours that I did on even ingesting small amounts.
As for gluten insensitivity on the increase My GP reckons its due to the overprocessing of foods before they reach the shelves, I tend to agree with this.
I know a low carb diet can help reduce type 2 diabetes (my OH is testament to this) it certainly doesnt cure it though.

If it works for you then thats great Im really pleased for you, I think if you have a good look on the forum you will find alot of posts on this subject over the past few years. It comes up every so often and is quite a contentious issue where some like me have found it an expensive waste of time in regards to RA and frustrating.

Just for info My food intolerances started way before my RA and I have eliminated them all some for 20 yrs some newer ones for 12 yrs. (potato, wheat, gluten, soya, red meats) I also have suspected inflamatory bowel disease.

Keep going with your quest as you are being proactive in trying to control your disease that in itself can have a great effect on how you feel.

Theresa

stickywicket

Theresa, that's the most sense I've heard about Gluten/Wheat Free diets for a long time. Thanks for putting it so well.

We all go rainbow-chasing in our early years. I tried every quack diet and supplement going. I think if it were that simple we'd all be competing in the Olympics.

AutoimmuneResearcher, I've look at the website and read some of the - very lengthy - testimonies there. I'm pleased if people have found relief but, as a confirmed sceptic, I'm inclined to believe that a healthier diet will improve most ailments and also, as a veteran RAer, I know that remissions can occur for no obvious reason at all. I also tend to believe that people who try things that don't work don't bother writing on websites about them. I really hope your diet helps you but, as for me, I'll stick with my tried and tested meth & hydroxy.

AutoimmuneResearcher

Hi Theresa4 / stickywicket

Thank you both for your considered and polite posts / replies. Thanks too to Delboy for his more intelligent post.

A lot of those posters on that KICKAS forum are not just trying a diet, they have undertaken a complete lifestyle change that requires them to make so many compromises in their day to day life.

[Paragraph removed by Moderator, house rule 1 states

1. Please respect other users re messages that may otherwise be considered offensive or imflammatory to other forum users Those breaking this rule will be warned once and then banned for a second offence.

Your wording suggests that rheumatologists do not know how to treat arthritis or that they know and willingly refuse to share this with their patients.]

[Paragraph removed by Moderator, house rule 3 states

3. What works for you may not work for others, so please don’t give other people direct advice

Please don't ask for personal information giving the impression you will be able to advise them personally.

Moderator
(YEH)]

Stickywicket - I don't buy the remission for no apparent reason thing. if anything this alone should give you hope that there is some process at play as part of the puzzle and I have views as to what these remissions are. I had almost 2 years of remission a number of years back - but was returned to AS from a bout of Gastric Influenza.

Medication is so important in the treatment of arthritis - but given the fact that we know that stronger NSAID and other meds effect the gut lining / which might already be damaged due to unknown food intolerence - Crohn's is rife in children with JIA - why do we continue to treat the sympton rather than the likely cause. Why do the medical profession hail a balanced diet as a high starch diet made up of Bread and Pasta - truly I despair.

There is a quote I stole from another forum that amused me in defence of a diet approach and follow yours and Delboys point about supermarkets -
"Anyone demanding rigorous, double-blind studies of starch exclusion in the mitigation of AS would never really stick to such a regimen, even in the face of still more compelling scientific evidence. Have we ever asked a bread baker for double-blind scientific studies that promote eating bleached and devitalized, micron-sized milled flour products in the first place? Lets demand their studies about the effects of the products they purvey, also! And how many people ask their doctors about the "double-blind" studies conducted on the common arthritis drugs they prescribe?"

From the same post -
Diet is an inexpensive alteration in lifestyle that can dramatically affect the course of AS. It does not require NICE approval, endorsement by your doctor, or abandonment of most allopathic therapies. It does, however, require some discipline and a sincere personal commitment to take charge of the course of your own case of Ankylosing Spondylitis.

Sorry to ramble.... but I sincerely care