Complementary therapies research

LignumVitae

Good morning everyone,

Sorry if this has already been posted and I am just behind the times (for a change). Arthritis Research have published a report into the effectiveness of different complementary therapies ranging from acupuncture, chiropractors, massage to copper bracelets. It focuses on four conditions: RA, OA, Fibro and lower back pain. The main finding is that more research needs to be done but it also does give an overview of effectiveness for each therapy based on any current research undertaken. I just know people are often interested in alternatives so I thought I would post in case anyone else wants to read. It's only 68 pages long and pretty easy to skim read, I did yesterday.

http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/news/press-releases/2013/january/new-report-on-complementary-therapies-for-arthritis-reveals-lack-of-scientific-evidence.aspx

Enjoy the sunshine! LV

stickywicket

Thanks for this, LV. There's been a lot of anecdotal stuff before but I don't think I've seen a proper survey until this one. I've only checked out the first page so far but it does confirm all I ever suspected.

The therapies that were shown to be the most effective are:

• Acupuncture for osteoarthritis, low back pain and fibromyalgia
• Massage for fibromyalgia and low back pain
• Tai chi for osteoarthritis
• Yoga for back pain


I looked in vain for RA. Virtually zilch :roll: Well, I could have told them that, too. Looks like I have the 'wrong kind of arthritis' I guess I'll just have to stick with the pharmaceuticals.

LignumVitae

I must say, having had my oh so healthy cousin waxing lyrical at me about how she could never take a headache pill or any other medical poison on Saturday I felt quite a lot better reading that report on Sunday - none of the alternatives to my nasty chemicals work for arthritis! The wrong kind of arthritis or the wrong kind of treatment for it?!

rockchick

I can almost see some people rubbing their hands in glee :roll:

As LV rightly points out, these reports highlight the fact that much more research needs to be done. The link here also focuses on therapies, rather than medications - there is another report about those, which has been on the Arthritis Research website for a long time, but has recently been updated. Several medications score highly for effectiveness and safety.

Interesting to see how the relationship between patient and practitioner can have a positive effect (albeit placebo). I'm sure many of us can relate to that.

I never understand the derisory attitude of some people towards alternative/complementary/holistic treatments/medications. The majority of people aren't looking for a cure, we aren't that gullible. But is it so absurd to look for ways to avoid taking fewer harmful drugs? You only have to read this forum to appreciate the devastating effects some of our marvellous conventional drugs can have. So crushed dandelion leaves might not help my RA. Methotrexate didn't either, and that one made my hair fall out, gave me raging diarrhea and made my head feel like it was going to explode. If using an alternative, like fish oil or capsaicin gel means I need fewer anti inflammatories, and I can reduce the risk of my stomach bleeding out, then surely that makes sense? Or an occasional visit to an osteopath or aromatherapy masseur means I sleep better for a few weeks and I can skip the night time drugs? Oh no, wait, if they help, it must mean I don't really have arthritis :roll:

It sucks that there aren't many treatments/meds which work for the likes of us. But if one person finds one thing that helps, is that not a good thing, provided it's safe for them to use? I often wonder how attractive our conventional drugs would be if we had to pay full whack for them.

LignumVitae

I don't think anybody is rubbing their hands with glee but I think a fair few of us have, often with good intentions buried somewhere, been judged for taking the nasty chemicals which do work for some of us and for not using alternatives that others swear by. If you can get by with the use if an alternative and if it works for you then lucky you. We aren't all so fortunate and a report which gives a good balanced view, such as this one is welcome and long overdue in my book.

stickywicket

Ok, rockchick, I can’t speak for others but my own “derisory attitude towards alternative/complementary/holistic treatments/medications” arises because, in the past, I’ve been there, done that, got the extremely expensive T-shirt and gained nothing, or virtually nothing, in the way of pain relief.

I know the prescribed meds can do harm. I live with some of the results but, at the end of the day, no-one charges me for trying them. Alternative meds/treatment can also do harm.

I frequently tell newbies on here that my husband takes cod liver oil and glucosamine daily because he reckons they keep his dodgy knee fit to play golf twice a week. I believe he’s right and I’m glad they work for him. I also think that, if alternative treatments mean that you can take fewer meds that’s also a good thing, provided your consultant/GP is happy about it.

I do get anxious, though, when some posters are inclined to ditch the prescribed meds and go chasing alternative rainbows.

rockchick

I agree completely LV, it's refreshing to see these reports. I've long been a fan of Arthritis Research, because they will inform people of different options and provide information - as much as is available, I suppose. I'm not sure why you would feel better, reading that none of the alternatives in the report work for arthritis. That's a real blow for those who aren't able to use the conventional meds on offer. Alternatives are the only option for some at the moment, even if they can't help as much as conventional meds.

My argument is that people should be able to make choices without being mocked, or having their illness belittled in some way. Trust me, it happens - a lot. Just as you have been victim to the judgements passed about you and your "nasty chemicals", (which, believe me, I fully understand are necessary, and have to take myself).

So why can't we be allowed to choose from whichever medication/therapy pot suits us as individuals? Mix n match conventional and alternative, as many of us do, without the snide comments, and the belittling of our conditions.

SW, just read your reply. I appreciate what you say. Of course some alternative meds can be harmful, all the more reason to have more research done. I just wish there could be a little more tolerance towards the non-conventional. It's the judgmental attitude of some people which upsets me. They assume because someone chooses - for whatever reason - to look for something other than what the NHS offers, it has to mean that person can't possibly suffer the same agonies that they do (that's as bad as the person with a mild headache not understanding the pain someone with arthritis suffers, and consequently their need to take stronger meds).

You admit yourself SW, you've tried alternatives in the past. They didn't help, fair enough, I'm sorry, but for many people, chasing those alternative rainbows might feel like their only hope, faced with the scary medicines on offer, especially just after diagnosis, so shouldn't they be afforded the same support and encouragement that others are given? I can understand if you've had this disease for years, you want to "fast track" people past that stage. I'd just like to see some people hold back with the less than encouraging comments.

MumV

Hi all

As the parent of a young person who was diagnosed with aggressive JIA , and hyper-mobility I try to keep abreast of all the articles research, latest ideas and initiatives but more importantly the honest view point of real people, its important to hear if things have /have not worked for other people. I really appreciate people sharing, I gleamed such a lot from joining this forum.

Prior to diagnosis, myself and family were advocates of as much natural as possible, breastfeeding, vegetarian etc keeping healthy, taking tablets only when absolutely necessary. Since diagnosis I am grateful for medical science and all the nasty but necessary drugs that have been prescribed to my daughter, without 30mg of Methotrexate the disease was well and truly taking hold........risk alternative therapy at this stage...I don't think so.

From my limited experience my view point would be get the condition under control first, then carefully consider (and check there is no interaction with meds) alternative therapy/safe activities.

On being granted the luxury of wellness and her condition well controlled, on going to Uni my daughter s recipe for herself has been keeping busy, she joined Pilates, mountaineering club, climbing group and now orienteering as well as field trips and a bit of cycling, but most importantly being happy and laughing a lot! Sitting still is painful!!

Presently She has been extremely lucky and is carefully reducing her methotrexate from 30mg....her next delivery will be 10mg, holding breath for what the next chapter will be.

I hope her story helps other people.

As always my heartfelt and genuine respect belongs to people living with Arthritis.

Mum V

hileena111

Hi
I'll stick my bit in now
As a volunteer for Arthritis Care and a speaker at some meetings....we prefer the word complimentary as opposed to alternative therapy.
Simply because if you find anything that works that is not prescribed.....its used WITH prescription meds, not INSTEAD of meds.
I'm game to try anything that isnt contra-indicated with the meds I already take. I'm in the middle of acupuncture at the moment. I'm going to a pain management class {not the arthritis one} its for all chronic illness. Waiting for an appointment with a psychologist {via the pain clinic} Have no idea what they will suggest
If someone finds something that is a placebo and it works.....go for it....if it helps you {or even if it just appears to help you}

1) Use a mixture of Prescribed meds and complimentary meds if necessary
2) Make sure they are not contra-indicated
3) Remember that complimentary meds can have as many side effects as
prescribed ones.
4) If placebos help you....dont let people tell you they are rubbish
5) Like we all say.....some things help some people but not others....same applies to complimentary meds.

Sorry for the rant

Love
Hileena

stickywicket

I don’t think that’s a rant, Hileena. I think it’s a very sensible bit of advice.

Basically, I think we all have the same aim – to do all we can to fight this dysfunctional family of diseases.

Rockcick, where I’m coming from is not just that I’ve ‘had this disease for years’ but also, for many years, what you call the ‘scary meds’ weren’t available which is why I ended up with two TKRs aged 35, virtually every joint affected and hands and feet that scanners do not recognize as hands and feet. That’s why I try to ‘fast track’ people onto the meds that will actually hold back the disease.

I think Hileena’s comments are the most sensible advice I’ve read on this topic – use complementary meds with the prescribed meds (if the docs OK it) not instead of. I know there are different attitudes to this but, when you say that ‘chasing rainbows might be their only hope’, well I think there is always hope, but false hopes are just dead ends that take us off track and possibly into danger.

rockchick

Damn. My reply just disappeared. Maybe I wasn't meant to post it.

It was a rather long, and somewhat personal post concerning a very dear friend of mine. I'm not one for giving personal info on the 'net, and it's not even my story, but in a nutshell, it concerns my wonderful, life-loving friend, who is as awe-inspiring as MumV's lovely daughter, full of positivity, and spends her life helping others, despite her own challenges. Thanks to genetics, she has a few auto-immune illnesses, along with several medication-induced problems. Throughout her life she's happily taken her medication, it's kept her alive. But following a diagnosis of inflammatory arthritis (possibly two types), the rheumatologists are now, for the moment, out of options. There is one medication she can safely take, but above a minimal dose, it puts her in hospital. Her internal organs have become very rebellious. She's watched me over the years, trying to cope with all that arthritis can bring, even with the benefit of (mostly safe, compared to her) medication. She's a big fan of medical science, but that too has it's limitations.

So right now, she's all out of conventional options, and has had to look at others. She's wise enough to realise that she must be selective, and her choices seem to be limited to food type supplements, and hands-on treatments (massage etc).

This isn't anything close to what I wanted to say, but I hope it might give an insight into why I might be a little over-sensitive about the subject. It breaks my heart to watch this very special person suffering so much pain, trying not to show it. Worse, because I do understand what she's going through physically.

Stickywicket, I hope I haven't offended you or anyone else, and I know that what you say is with the very best of intentions. For most other people with this illness, I can personally reassure them that normal medications can give them the chance of a better life. It hurts like hell not to be able to tell my friend that, and I refuse to give up on the possibility that there might be something safe that could help her, and people like her.

We'll keep on looking.

dreamdaisy

Conventional medicine ignored my increasingly fat knee - in desperation and ignorance of the problem I tried acupuncture, homeopathy, private physio, magnets and supplements. Luckily the physios at our local footy club were much more on the ball than my then GP and they were the ones who referred me to orthopaedics. I then lost a further year in being bounced gently between ortho and rhuemotology but eventually started the conventional meds, far too late for any benefit to be gained and hence the mess I'm in now.

When you have a serious illness they're not an answer. People want answers and cures but these are not able to supply those things. They may provide a little more temporary relief but not much more. My Ma now wants to get me a pair of Copp*rh**lers. How the hell are they going to control my immune system or sort out the pain of bone-on-bone through 3/4 of my knees etc? Bless her, she did point out that they could be worn with the 'orthodontics' I have from the hospital.

If you have the money to spare then go ahead and spend it. There are, alas, some problems in life to which there no answers, let alone easy ones. We live in a quick-fix world and we can't be. DD

stickywicket

Rockchick, you haven’t offended me in the least. You’ve stated your views honestly and that’s as much as any of us can do.

The situation with your friend must be very disheartening for all concerned. Having children and grandchildren, I’m firmly of the belief that it’s easier to undergo stuff ourselves than to have to watch, helplessly, as those we love undergo it. Thankfully, very few forum members will be in such an extreme situation. I do hope your friend can find something that helps.

rockchick

Thank you for reading, SW.

MumV

Hi Rockchick,

Thank you on behalf of my daughter for your lovely comment, directed at her, she is embracing her wellness. She is an inspiration, and good for her.
I can empathise with how you feel watching another close to you suffering, your friend has been given a lot to handle. She is lucky to have such a caring supportive friend (who can genuinely understand). I hope you and she find some alternative / and or complementary therapy that does work in some way.

I am sure you have seen the write ups about BIP, link below:

http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/news/press-releases/2013/february/first-in-human-trial-of-a-new-drug-for-rheumatoid-arthritis.aspx

Lets hope this brings positive results, and is a help for people in the near future.

Thank you to Hileena111 for good practical well worded advice. I hope your classes help you too!

Any way Rock chick I have intruded enough. I understand the intensity of your words when the needs of another are involved. Take care yourself also.

MumV

rockchick

I did read the link, MumV, thank you, and it does sound very promising. The thought of using your own immune system to 're-boot' itself, that's clever! They seem to think it could even help with osteoporosis, and I can't help but wonder what other auto-immune conditions it could possibly help, given so many seem to involve inflammation in some way. You can tell I'm not a scientist, a wishful thinker maybe

I appreciate your kind wishes for my friend. It's a cruel irony that she would happily take any medication available that might stop the joint damage, but her body rejects it. We can keep on hoping.

Best wishes for your daughter, and you and your family. I get the feeling that your daughter's happiness and wellness is in no small part due to the loving, supportive family she is very lucky to have. Now if only that was available on prescription

Take care
RC

MumV

Hi Rockchick,

Thanks again for good wishes for my daughter. Yes TLC on prescription, there is a novelty, I like it!

I am of the same mind as you a wishful thinker, I just think the BIP makes practical sense, and yes like you I was wondering if it works would lead to helping other autoimmune conditions, lets hope we are not thinking too fast !!

Argh, that is so unfair for your freind. You must feel like screening at times I know I have for my daughter in the past but yes hope is a more positive place to direct energy, just easier said than done sometimes.

Thanks to you Rockchick and everyone on the forum for giving me a place to also express and learn.

Take care "chick" gentle TLC is prescribed to you and all.

Roadback

I just read both research papers and they are very glossy and well presented but ultimately too focused on looking at the efficacy of single individual treatments - I am supporter of alternatives but think this research is out of step with how some of these treatments would be used alongside each other or how they might be used will other approaches such as diet changes - which is not even mentioned despite being proven to help some people.

stickywicket

I'm sure you're right that many people would benefit from diet changes. Arthritis Care advocates a - non-specific - healthy diet. But the research was on complementary therapies not diet.

rockchick

Roadback, hi. I'm guessing it's all down to money. The dietary issue is quite complex anyway, and there's no one-size-fits-all, is there? When it comes to food sensitivities for instance, and exclusion diets, you need to know where to start, how to go about it, and it's time consuming (although there's at least one book written by a rheumatologist, that I know of) and let's face it, the drug companies are hardly likely to give it their support. No money in it for them!


MumV, hi!

dreamdaisy

ThisOne has posted on 19smp59's thread about hip OA. It's interesting reading but they don't mention whether it has to be extra-virgin olive oil. DD

theresa4

I am/wads a big fan of complementary therapies.
After having meningitis it took me 2 years on antibiotics to realise I wasnt gertting better my immune system was depleted and continuous antibiotics were not the cure, I stated using herbal and homeopathy and that worked for me it still took a year, very hard year refusing antibiotcs until desperate but eventually I had a few years of very good health until RA started.
I tried as much complementary therapies as I could afford massage, chiropractic care, homeopathy, aromatherapy. Early days these were really good for me I certainly 'felt' better alongside my NSAIDS and MTX. As the years have gone by I found I cant have the chirpractic work or massage on my hands, wrists and arms anymore as where they used to bring relief now cause me more pain. I go if Im locked up now so My chiro can relaease trapped nerves or straighten me up a bit but we are very careful what we do. I cant have massage now other than tickles as my fibro makes it very uncomfortable and if the masseuse goes just a tiny bit deeper I cant get dressed the following day, my skin is on fire and so painful.
I use peppermint oil for headaches Its very effective for me, as I am on Paracetemol already daily and can no longer take NSAIDS or simple ibuprofen (can only use Voltarol gel cannot take it orally at all).
I get the cure comments regularly from my family of well wishers and try not to show my irritation, I have spent a fortune on cures and funnily enough my health is deteriorating and Im collecting auto immunes Im up to 3 possibly 4 lol. Along with food and medication intolerances which now include 8 different antibiotics, all NSAIDS, several biologics/anti TNF the list is not exhaustive lol.
Ive tried alot and would never dismiss them outright, as I said some worked for me even if just for a short time. My but is they are so expensive I would love to try more but cant afford it as many of us find after having to give up work or reduce hours.

On a note about chinese medicine I dont know of any cases with arthur but my friend was told to have a hysterectomy due to severe endimetriosis, she was 29 and childless. She decided to give CM a go she had the disgusting tasting herbs and acupuncture and managed to conceive within 6 months, despite having been trying for years prior to the CM. She has 2 kids now her gynae was amazed she conceived the first time let alone the 2nd.
If you can afford it its worth a try but keep an open mind and dont pin your hopes on it 'curing' you. That leads to dissapointment and annoyance having wasted money. I enjoyed my massage and chiro and my health club spas etc whilst I could afford it and whilst they were helping. I dont regret trying them or the money I spent on homeopathy as it was right for me for a time. Im now resigned to knowing they dont work any more and Im no longer searching for a cure (although my heels are still in boxes in my cupboard lovingly cherished waiting for the day I wake up and can wear them again )
Good luck with anything you try
Theresa x