ESA

ELAINE55555

Hi All

Hope someone can help. I've been getting contribution based ESA for 14 weeks now. What happens next? Ive read somewhere that you get put into one of two groups. Will I have to go to a tribunal or meeting? Ive not had any correspondance from DWP regarding this. Will my ESA benefit be increased? Or stopped? Present doctors line takes me up to October.
Thanks in advance

maria09

Hi Elaine
My views an ESA are unrepeatable as I'm having an ESA tribunal tomorrow
Word of advice as I'm sure they will be sending for you to have an ESA assessment with Atos is to ask for it recorded they are by law supposed to inform you of this but don't! I do feel my outcome would have been a lot different!
I'm supposedly fit for work as I can as everyone can carry an empty cardboard box! Strange as I retired due to ill health at the age of 49 after working for 30 years
I hope your experience with them is much better than most of us on here
Maria

johnsouthwales

not being funny, but dwp have written down in my reconsideration report that even though they acknowlege pain, the evidence appears that there are no significant factors.

the dwp also made a comment - he takes no prescribed medication for his ailments, nor does he have any medical input, takes only paracetamol and ibruphen over the counter medications which would surely be inappropriate to deal with the level of pain.

(since the nhs did not prescribe me anything, the only things i could take was paracetamol anyway, and wasn't prescribed iboprufen until 2011 only because of the sciatica developed due to the osteoarthritis showing up in the 2011 xray.. so, i kept on buying them myself cos it was easier to do rather than traipsing to the gp for prescriptions)..

whilst it is accepted that he experiences pain and discomfort, it must be remembered that activities do not have to be performed without discomfort or pain

maria09

Hi
John your quote
whilst it is accepted that he experiences pain and discomfort, it must be remembered that activities do not have to be performed without discomfort or pain
Is word for word what was written on my report!
It's obviously a standard reply copy and pasted by them! My god! We are not even treat as individuals the b*****ds!
What chance do any of us wining our cases I'm waiting to get the outcome from my tribunal on Saturday so will let you know when I find out
Elaine don't let any of this to stop you claiming or later down the line from appealing that's what they want for them we are not people we are the amount of money it costs to pay our benefit
One piece of advice if you are called for an Atos assessment you must state you want it recorded they are by law supposed to offer you for it to be recorded and I'm sure if I had my outcome would have been different I also told the judge hearing my case and also stated that the physical examination was performed whilst sitting and my range of movements were not checked even straight leg raises were not performed, I was a qualified nurse for 27 years and know exactly what is checked when a physical exam is carried out
I'm hoping all that helps with my case
Hope all goes well for you
Maria

bubbadog

The questions that where asked on the ESA forms where crazy! And my OH & I found that the main question of a section didn't mean the answer you gave covered the whole section!
Explanation:- Main section Question-

Can you carry a light cardboard box?
If yes go to Q. blah, if No carry on-

Q.1.) Can you carry a light cardboard with several hardback books in?


Do you understand what I mean? The Questions didn't cover the whole section properly, we ended up saying no to every section so we got my whole proper meaning covered!

johnsouthwales

i'm not sure if the dwp have a definitive manual now, it would take forever to publish it given the thousands of premutations.

it's easier for them to ask can you peel and chop vegetables. they don't say which vegatables which will have a bearing.

take for example, peeling potatoes. some people can with mild ease, some people could with mild discomfort.

peeling potatoes is always a task for a fit person, and a fit peron will feel achy afterwards. so i'm not quite so sure what the relevance is in that situation.

if someone who alreardy endures some level of pain can peel a potato, can do so and endures further pain or discomfort during the task and may take some time for the discomfort to recede after the task.

peeling a carrot is less minimal than a potato, the hand movement is different as they a are long strokes rather than a curl. but a carrot will need some more cutting than a potato, and as a carrot is hard in density, what i do is instead of cutting circles, i cut lengthways, but still ends up cutting in half anyway.

cutting brocolli is another example. the worse is suede.

for myself personally, i feel my back playing up when standing up anyway, and when sitting down, so the back is active in whichever position it's in.
i find it difficult to understand fully what the relevance is in peeling a carrot which takes about a minute or less. unless they are thinking along the lines that someone who can peel one carrot is capable of working in a carrot peeling factory, which is ridiculous anyway because we are not talking about a minute anymore, up to 8 hours is involved.

so, what is the relevance of 1 minute compared to 8 hours? there isn't one.

i won't be suprised if they do not have a manual becaue if they did, they would end up contradicting themselves.

same as usig a laptop, if i could use one for 15 minutes at a time, does that mean i am capable of using one for 8 hours in work? (by the way, computers is a hobby of mine pre-osteoarthitis etc so i'm not exactly short of knowlege)..

but as the dwp are pretty well vague in what they exactly mean by fit for work (which boild down to any old work) and does not take into account the variations in a particular environment.

using a computer in an office. some office computers are only used 15 mins an hour, the rest of the hour is taken up in other tasks such as telephone, reading document, conversing.
now, a computer operator in another dpeatment may well be using a computer for more than 30 mins in an hour if their main task is admin.
a secretary may well be using it or 45 mins.

a research compiler may well be using a computer for an hour but no actions are taken, so all they are doing is scrolling.

the relevances at works are so different, so therefore the manual dexterity is different. then again, i would find 15 minutes of continuous potatoe peeling far more strenuous compared to 15 mins of internet browsing. 15 mins of continuous word processing is strenuous and sensitive to the wrist and fingers. and no doubt will play up a back and joints when sitting still for 15 mins.

sometimes i can't sit down for 5 mins when getting the need to get up.

so, when the atos lot ask if you use a computer, it's like the veg situation. it depends what someone does with them. then again, as i been using computers for over ten years, my first bout of rsi came in 2004.

so, if atos ask if you use a computer, the variations are different. someone might just use a computer to read or watch a video. or read an email.. or visit a discussion forum

so, where does it lead to? they say they try to build a picture. can you cook your own food? erm... unless you're feeding the 5000, i don't think someone is actually being dexterious when the food is being cooked as the oven does that. if a meal takes an hour or more, up to 15 mins is used in prep time. unless living on jam sandwiches, but then again they'd say if you can use a knife to spread the butter, and open the breadbin to take out a slice of bread, you are using your hands.

which is just the same as the carrot. if someone spends 10 mins a time preparing food etc, that's 20 mins a day. oh and brush the teeth, 2 mins.. use a computer 1 hour a day. making tea.. 90 mins a day equates to 10.5 hours a week in manual dexterity even though it involves some pain and discomfort, which is quite reasonable with the dwp

some people use a computer for ten mins and need 20 mins rest. if dwp ask if you use a computer for recreaction, say yes but explain how they feel when using one and after. just because someone uses a computer, it does not mean it is being used 100% of the time. reading a screen can cause some headaches, eye strain etc

dreamdaisy

Hello Elaine, I can't help with your query as I have yet to get tangled up in this nightmare but I reckon that when they want to tell you something they will. In the meantime keep a note of how long you have been receiving ESA, and at what level, so that you will have the information for them should it be required: don't assume that they will keep records or do their jobs accurately but also don't rock the boat. DD

brandy192

Hello Elaine

If you see a benefits advisor at DIAL they will fill in your form for you and explain the guidlines around the points system and also they keep a file on you and photocopy all forms and attachments you send to DWP so they have all your info to hand for when you need to appeal. I rang to apply for ESA on 30th August and this morning I had £52 in my bank from them. I also recieved my statement of information and a form to fill in for an ATOS assessment.

maria09

Hi
A word of warning to all the fact that you apply for ESA and get it you WILL
Have to attend an Atos assessment which no matter what your condition is no matter how bad you think your condition is YOU will be found FIT to work
People are dying of cancer before they even get to the tribunal hearing those same people were found FIT to work by Atos and the DWP will never side with you but go with Atos. It is not about us and the benefit we need its about saving money that's all!
In my opinion its totally unethical and immoral to treat sick and vulnerable like this
Atos use Doctors who have signed the Hippocratic oath to do no harm which in my eyes they are breaking. Nurses also have their own code of conduct this too I know they are breaking as I was a qualified nurse for 27 years and each year have to renew our membership and get a new copy of our code of conduct
I must say I'm ashamed at my nursing colleagues who work for Atos its not about helping people its about destroying people's lives and for that I'm truly sorry
Don't get me on about the empty cardboard box!!! At my tribunal when the Dr asked about the empty cardboard box I said yes laughing stating anyone could pick up an empty cardboard box! The judge did state at this point that she did understand my thoughts on the empty cardboard box but we were not there to comment on their method of their points system.
I'm still waiting to hear my outcome of my tribunal
One thing I want to get over to anyone going to an Atos assessment take someone with you as a witness and get it RECORDED
If you have to go down the tribunal route then you have recorded evidence from that assessment also take someone with you as a witness this will help your case, my husband could not attend so my friend came with me but couldn't back me up on the answers like hubby could have done
Keep strong keep fighting
Hopefully this won't be censored by the moderators if it is I'm sorry if I've broken any rules but I'm so passionate about this I don't want anyone going through this not to be aware what can and does happen
Maria :x

lizzieuk1

Hi, I was on ESA for 5 months and never got asked for anything other than sick notes. I guess they would eventually have assessed me via atos or assigned a grouping but I was on standard pay for the whole time.

oldies

I am on ESA and was put in the support group,WITHOUT a face to face assesment.I filled my forms in end of last year saying i was being put in the support group,however do not be fooled by this as i was sent the same forms again about 3 weeks ago to fill in yet again.Nothing has or ever will change so why on earth they send them every year to fill and add to the stress we all get through illness.I must add that the question are crazy,when they say can you lift this can you carry that,if you read the manual for their guide lines it has to be safely and repaetedly in decent amount of time.Most people with arthritis may be able to do it once but to do it repeatedly may cause and does cause in my case not to be able to use my hands for days afterwards.I have got to have my forms sent back yet Again by next monday,good luck to one and all with the form filling and any tribunals.Pleas let us know how things go.

ELAINE55555

Ive been getting Esa for about 4 months now. Basic rate. Ive not been put in any group. Could this be because mine is contribution based? Or does it not make any difference?. Would like to phone them, as I could be doing with the little bit extra money I would get if in a group, but I dont want to rock the boat!

maria09

Hi Elaine
Mine were contribution based so no,that means very little
I hope you do better than me
Maria

oldies

I am at the moment in the support group contrbution rate.I think you go onto basic to start with them assesment and they will decided what group you are in.Disgusting that they dont take your doctors decision to say you you are unfit for work.It makes my blood boil what they are doing :x

justinbarrow

oldies wrote:

I am on ESA and was put in the support group,WITHOUT a face to face assesment.

Wow no face to face assessment...it can happen I have heard stories of people passing medicals only to be contacted again a few weeks later. Its all to do with what they put into their system apparently they have to state how long in their professional opinion the condition will last

oldies

Hi all
Just another update,igot yet another set of forms in the post today!!!!!!!! first lot came last momth to be back by 23rd sept,the ones today are identical but have to be back by october 16th.What a waste of time and money by ATOS.I rang them and they said its just incase you didnt get the first ones,Dwp told me to fill both in and send them in the same envolope,as if my hands will let me !!!!!! struggle doing one set let alone two.
If they looked at my illnesses they would know at least one of my illnesses can ever get better.

maria09

Hi
Why am I not surprised both are totally incompetent
It doesn't matter what diagnosis you have they just ignore it anyway
I hope you have better luck than me
Would cross my fingers but can't
Good luck with your fight
Maria

oldies

Oh Maria09
I know the feeling,i would cross mine and my toes if i could.I agree with you whole heartedly.It beggers belief why they would keep sending you more forms to give you more stress when they have already put people in the support group.If they are doctors surely to god they know that some illnesses are just not going to go away x

oldies

Well still heard nothing from ATOS or DWP,sent forms back before 23rd september and still nothing.

Wowzer

I know from experience what a stressful and frightening time it is for sick and disabled people, with so many cuts and changes to benefits, and an increasingly heartless system behind it all. That's why I signed the WOW petition, which calls for an end to the Work capability Assessment (as called for by the British Medical Association in 2012) and a New deal for sick and disabled people. Russell Brand and Stephen Fry have signed it, but it has only 77,000 signatures at the moment, and needs to get to 100,000 by December 12th to get a debate in Parliament. We need to let the powers that be know that we're not happy and we deserve better. Please go to http://www.wowpetition.com now and sign it. And get all your friends and family to sign it too, because one day they could be sick or disabled and the system may fail them. Thank you.

maria09

Hi
Have you heard Atos no longer have the contract! They were saying too many were fit for work when I fact it was the total opposite
I also found they lied and ignored my replies to suit themselves and o changed sex! Couldn't get pregnant as I was a male client! Well for the whole of my life I've lived as a woman And gave birth twice! Idiots!
Hope they get another company that are caring and compassionate but won't hold my breath!
Good luck
Maria

oldies

Good god,how can they get away with changing your sex!!!!!!!! The DWP used to do all the assesments,i had a medical with a doctor and he said the trouble is with these forms is they are made by civil servents and not doctors.How the hell do they know what sort of questions to ask.In my view there should be none at all if they cant tell by your medical records what your problems are then send you for a medical with there doctors.

bridesmum

I have been waiting since march for my appeal, they sent me my paperwork back which I had filled in and a letter saying I would get a date soon. (This was about 6 months ago) when I looked through said paperwork I found 2 pages describing another applicants condition and the corresponding 2 pages of mine missing! I spoke to someone and expressed my concern and asked them how this had happened and also how could they make a decision about me without the correct paperwork describing my health issues. I didn't get much of an answer unsurprisingly.
The paperwork pertaining to the other applicant included his name, address, national insurance number, date of birth and descriptions of his health issues ie, paranoia, manic depression and other mental health issues. No doubt he's been told he's fit to work too! It also worries me that he probably has all my personal info also. Deb

maria09

Hi Deb
That is absolutely disgraceful!
I think you need to go to citizens advice and see what they say!
You maybe able to sue them for breach of confidentiality or even better contact your MP
I didn't think they could get any more incompetent but again proved wrong!
They are as much use as a chocolate teapot!
Take care
Maria

trepolpen

Hi Deb
totaly agree "That is absolutely disgraceful!" , got see your MP & ask them to take the issue up , how can they send out someone medical history to you & what have they done with your's & who have they sent it to

ELAINE55555

I got a phone call from DWP yesterday to confirm that I had been to an ATOS meeting. She said a final decision had not been made but it was looking highly unlikely that I would get ESA as I had admitted that I could drive.(Ive got an automatic) So it looks like the job centre for me. Find me a job where I don't have to use my hands all day long or I'll defo be off sick! :?