Unsure, and would appreciate any advice

Dakky

Hi All,

I've joined and posted on this forum as I'm very unsure about the way my health is going. I realise that only a doctor can confirm arthritis for me, but I'm at my wits end, and the pain killers I'm currently taking appear to be doing nothing for me.

I'm a 39 year old male and up until roughly three months ago was in great health, very fit and active. The start of this illness I'm having was a feeling of warmth and pain that moved to my knees, wrists and elbows. This has then progressively moved around to other joints in my body. The knee pain left me unable to walk for two weeks, The wrist pain has been really bad with loud cracking when moving them, When it hit my neck I was unable to move my neck for five days, the shoulders was also agonizing when it first hit.

This last week though seen some excruciating developments. The intense pain I was having from my wrists cracking has moved into my hands, up my forearms and into my elbows. My shoulders also crack from very normal movements and I now sit with my elbows tucked tight to my sides, to avoid moving them, as if I do, this can be met with severely loud snapping that leaves me in agony. The co-codomol and anti-inflammatory pills prescribed by my doctor do nothing to relieve the pain.

I also have extremely sore clavicles neck and back pain too, these also make cracking sounds, leaving me debilitated. My right shoulder cracked/snapped last night picking up a glass of water, I have been in agony since and at one point was going to take myself to the ER, as I feel I may have ruptured something. I didn't as I feel I may have made a fool of myself.

I have had several doctors visits since this started. My doctors have put me on 100mg of serotonin* three times a day, and have given me co-codomol and ant-inflammotory tablets to take. The doctors seem to think this pain is due down to me recovering from a second bout of h.pylori.

My biggest concern is this cracking maybe breaking down my cartilage at an alarming rate. I have asked the doctors if this cracking would cause this, but the doctor assured me it hasn't.

As I sit typing this right now I have pain in both knees, wrists, shoulders, clavicles, neck pain, both ankles, right elbows joint, lower back and left hip. I'm literally frightened to move in case Something else cracks and leaves me in agony. I can no longer sleep on my sides as this leaves me with crippling shoulder and clavicle pain. Sleeping flat on my back only aggravates my lower back to the point I'm in agony, sleeping on my tummy does this too.

I was tested about to months ago for RA with blood work, but that came back negative. I have no swelling or redness in my joints too speak of, barr waking up yesterday with hands and wrists swollen. There has never been any arthritis in my families history as well. I too have never experienced any joint pain before this.

I have kept a diary of how this has progressed through my body and have shown it to my doctor. My next appointment with the doctor is a week from today. I was their last Thursday when it first hit my hands, this was when I was prescribed the co-coedamol and anit-inflammotories and assured that it wouldn't be effecting my cartilage.

If you've read this far, sorry for waffling on. I'm just in that much pain and worried at the speed my joint pain is getting worse. I have nobody really to relate to concerning this, and stumbled across this site whilst researching joint pain. I really just needed to get this out.

Thanks for listening.

DebbieT

Hello & welcome,

I'm so sorry ure in a lot of pain & are quite fearful by the sounds of it

Have you had ure inflammatory markers checked in ure blood tests?

Have you discussed the possibility of Fibromyalgia or Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome with ure Dr? Look them up & see if they sound like a possibility. The best people to ask are ure Drs tho ... We all suffer from arthritis of one type or another & even more than one type but we aren't medically trained so it's pure guess work I'm afraid

I really hope you get some answers asap. Good luck

Xx xX

salamander

Have you had a referral to a rheumatologist?

Kittkat

I think you need a referal for a rheumatologist. I think it may be fibromyalgia , arthritis or it could be something else. My arthritis began like this I have psoriasis arthritis and have normal tests for everything and no swelling.Whatever it is I am sure it is treatable so please don't panic yet! I know these things are terrifying but you are on to it quick

Boomer13

Hello and welcome;

I agree with the others, you need to consult a rheumatologist. Keep up with your diary it helps and you may need your detailed notes later.

Best wishes, Anna

Sezeelson

Sounds very painful!

Firstly, I looked into the clicking of joints and arthritis but there is no link. Clicking is the release of air between the joint and not necessarily a sign of cartilage damage or something that could speed cartilage damage up. As a kid, my joints made the most horrific of sounds! The only concern that was raised was my left wrist 'grinding' rather then clicking.

If your DR isn't being helpful enough remember you can request a second opinion from another or request to be referred to a specialist. Your well within your rights and may help get things moving in the right direction.

It does take time but there will be light at the end of the tunnel and you will find out what is causing your pains and how you can manage it and improve.

Good luck

trepolpen

hi , would not worry to much about the joints cracking , its when it makes a clunk to worry about

agree with the others & ask to be refered to a consultant as a GP will not know whats going on but dont think its RA but there ia 200 arthritis it could be or something else , ask about your inflammatory makers ( CRP & ESR ) your GP should have checked this when they done blood test

[Deleted User]

Welcome to this unholy coven of pain- specialists out of experience.
You mention a blood test that was made. Was that all on the diagnostic front? Nothing else? Like a scan or a x-ray, for example? I mean, it's ok to prescribe painkillers, of course. But the next urgent thing should be the search for the roots of your awful problem. And it sounds really urgent! You should insist on that. Really! I had to press my gp to do exactly that, since he was very reluctant. After the results came back he was kind of humbled and is very co-operative now.

dreamdaisy

The cracking is nothing to do with cartilage, it's to do with trapped nitrogen in the joints (that's what people pop when they crack their knickles). You say that you are recovering from a second bout of h.pylori (is that the helicobactor thingy?) There is something called Reactive Arthritis, this is triggered when one has an infection but can clear up (until you catch another bug). I am not a doctor (none of us on here are) but it may be an idea to google Reactive Arthritis (on a responsible site only, please) and see if the symptoms of that match what is happening with you. GPs know a little about a lot, rheumatologists a lot about a little, so rheumatology may be your next port of call. If it is possibly Reactive A then your GP should refer you without question. I wish you well. DD

Dakky

Hi again.

First thank you for all the replies. Really wonderful to see so many helpful posts.

I'm not sure how to reply to multiple posts on the board so I'll do my best to answer them from just reading.

Regarding the heliobacteria/h.pylori. I had this months back before any joint pain started. I was given a selection of antibiotics to get rid of this after testing postive after going through months of abdominal pains. I took the Antibiotics and the pain cleared up in the abdominal region for a couple of months.

Not long after that I started getting the joint pain, started in knees, wrists and forearms. I also noticed a return of abdominal pain. I told the doctors at the time I felt I was having the same stomach issues along with the joint pain, I also noticed dark blood in the stools. The doctor treated me for a suspected fissure (unconfirmed as she couldn't find anything on examination) Told me just to keep moving the joints and said I wouldn't still have H.pylori/heliobacteria.

I had too keep going back to the doctors as the joint pain kept spreading, I had only been told to take parcetomol* for the joint pain. It was on my fourth visit to a different doctor who asked if I had been tested after my previous antibiotics to see if the h.pylori had cleared up (I hadn't been tested to see if it had cleared up) That I found out I still had h.pylori, and have had to have stronger antibiotics to clear it up.

I finished the these antibiotics a while back (still have stomach issues and blood in stool) So I'm not sure how this is going to proceed. I'm wondering if there is a link to the antibiotics or h.pylori regarding this joint pain.

I was given an xray at the beginning of my pain for my left knee about three months ago, this came back fine.

The doctor mentioned a rhuemy* doctor to me about six weeks ago, I've heard nothing regarding that since. A physio appointment was meant to have been made for me, nearly eight weeks ago, heard nothing regarding that either, not sure how long it takes to get a physio appointment though.

Clunking was mentioned earlier in a post. I started hearing clunking sounds coming from pelvic area about 5/6 weeks ago. It now hurts when I bend down in my left hip and have lower back pain that disturbs sleeping, especially as I can't sleep on my sides. I also hear a cracking sound when I stand up from that area. I have mentioned all of this to the doctor.

Reactive arthritis: Could be a possibility I suppose, I'm not sure what to think after reading so many different things with ailments that seem to be similar to mine.

Sorry if I missed any questions, minds not at 100% as sitting here racked in pain again. Hands and wrist bones are swollen again today, along with multiple other joint pains, and to top it off my lymph glands are swollen under my ears, and I have pain all around my throat, especially the adams apple area, lymph glands I assume. I'm definitely going to push it with doctors this coming Tuesday, Thanks for listening. I hope those of you in pain nothing but the very best!

barbara12

Welcome to the forum..has you have already seen the people on here are so kind and supportive
You do have a lot going on there,and you are not waffling but trying to get across how the pain is effecting you, like someone else has said have you seen a rheumy ...they know more about these things than our GPS..I do hope you get some answers very soon... and more to the point some relief from the pain

salamander

You could go back to your GP and ask about rheumy referral and also one to a gastroenterologist for your h. pylori problem.

Has your GP done any blood tests to see if your inflammation markers are up? I had x rays on my knees that didn't show anything yet when I went to my initial rheumy appointment, the doctor said both my knees were badly swollen and withdrew a lot of fluid from one.

Dakky

salamander wrote:

You could go back to your GP and ask about rheumy referral and also one to a gastroenterologist for your h. pylori problem.

Has your GP done any blood tests to see if your inflammation markers are up? I had x rays on my knees that didn't show anything yet when I went to my initial rheumy appointment, the doctor said both my knees were badly swollen and withdrew a lot of fluid from one.

Yes I had a blood test done near the beginning when all this started in the joints, the doctor said there was nothing positive for arthritis, she also moved my wrist joints around and felt my knees, and said they were fine.

Had it not been for the recent swelling in my knuckles and wrists, I was assuming this may be the starting signs of osteoarthritis. The literature i had been reading seemed to suggest that cracking and clunking sounds may be early signs. Then again, I'm not sure as I've read that osteo takes a while to come on, yet in a three month period every joint in my body is cracking or clunking. The shoulder, neck and clavicle pain and cracking only started about 5/6weeks ago, yet the pain has quickly reached torturous stage.The pelvic area is starting to go that way too.

I know the majority of members here will be suffering from joint pain, and as such would more than likely have helpful information. As my doctor said it wasn't arthritis, I thought I'd join up to see if any other members had similar symptoms to mine, so I could go back to the doctors with some real world information.

My doctor is a great lady, but with cracking and pain starting to engulf me I'm definitely going to push for an appointment with a rheumatoid doctor when I see her Tuesday. I can't be wishing my days away in the hope of getting better sitting here in pain.

Thanks for the advice on a gasto doctor too, I never knew there was such a thing, going to ask to see one of them too as it now hurts to eat. I will post back on how it goes with the doctor.

Thanks for all the replies.

Mat48

It really sounds as if you are a having a hellish time and I'm very sorry for you. My RA started in quite a similar way to what you are describing - moving about my body dramatically until it finally settled in hands and wrists. I've never had much swelling. At first my GP thought it was post-viral arthritis (not sure if this is different to reactive?) but when it lingered and my bloods came back very elevated he referred me to a rheumatologist straight away.

I'm sure you know this from your research but it's possible to have sero-negative RA and also to have a spondyloarthritis which include Psoriatic Arthritis and Ankylosing Spondylitis - all of which often come with little visible swelling and no blood markers. So it's not all that straightforward to get a diagnosis for many people and I really would push to see a rheumatologist and a gastrointologist as soon as possible because it sounds quite unbearable for you just now. Good luck. Mat x

DebbieT

Hi again,

Do you have psoriasis in any form? Nails, scalp, plaques, guttate or pustular ... Anything, even if it's small or is it in ure family perhaps? If so you need to mention that to ure GP & Rheumy (it could lead to psoriatic arthritis), wen you see one. I also still think asking about Fibromyalgia is worthwhile. Ud be amazed by the list of symptoms that delightful syndrome can bring with it

Being negative for the Rheumatoid Factor doesn't rule out all other autoimmune types, so ure GP shouldn't be satisfied by that single result!!

I really hope you get some where asap.
Please try & also remember to ask for ure inflammatory markers to be checked (CRP or ESR). I rarely show swelling externally as mine tends to occur internally, as Mat48 has suggested.

Please let us know how you get on.

Xx xX

dreamdaisy

I meant 'knuckles' :oops: - blasted creaky fingers.

GPs know a little about a lot, rheumatologists know a lot about a little. I think you should press for a referral to a rheumatologist, they may not be able to answer all your questions immediately but they do know a great deal more about these things. OA doesn't move in the same way as an auto-immune type, and there are many versions of that. :roll: Did you know that men have more pain receptors than women? This means your gender can feel pain more acutely - tough, innit? DD

pot80

About 20% do not respond to the blood test for RA. I did not and so the GP set off on another tack.Pain killers were totally ineffective.Fortunately my wife (physio) phoned the GP (I could not even lift the phone) and banged the drum a bit.Senior GP got me to rheumatologist in 3 days - the weekend got in the way or it would have been sooner. I was diagnosed with a polymyalgic (all muscles) onset to RA. This is distinct from PMR -polymyalgia rheumatica.Three years later and I am doing well. The important thing is to get early diagnosis.

DebbieT

^^^^^^ A great example ^^^^^^

Thanks Pot80

(Sorry I have Keith Lemons voice in my head wen ever I write or read ure username :oops: )

Xx xX

Dakky

Thanks again for the replies!

I checked a bit about psoriasis arthritis. I have scabbing on my right temple and my left toe nail is full with ridges discoloured* I notice that the toe is very bent as well, it's always been bent a small bit but this is different. This appears to be happening on the right too.

Mentioning bent things. I was at my brothers yesterday, we were talking about how this is effecting me, as we use to do training together and I told him his stairs were killing my knees, he asked to look at them. I showed him my knees and he straight away said to me that my legs looked bent. I went to the mirror, stood straight and right enough, it looks like from the knee down, my legs are sticking out the way, hard to describe but if you stand with your feet inches apart and bend your knees in, it looks similar to that, the left more so than the right. Could this happen in three months?

After reading about psoriasis arthritis, I'm now worried that permanent damage maybe being done, as it says that any joint damage is irreversible.

Was mentioned above about painkillers not being effective. I woke up today with very bad pain in all my joints, particularly lower-mid back, wrists and shoulders, getting out of bed was a nightmare, about twenty cracks going off at once. Took my ant-inflammatory and coc-codomol, not a sausage in terms of pain relief.

I almost wish I never read that about psoriasis arthritis now, with pain and cracking in every joint, if I'm left with this or it gets worse before treatment, I'll be one sad cookie.

Edited this to say I forgot I seem to have a flaky rash right where my solar plexus is, forgot cause it's been there for years.

DebbieT

Dakky please don't panic!!

These changes have only recently occurred for you & as we've all said none of us are Drs. PsA is an autoimmune type of arthritis & the treatments are there to be used but you may not even have arthritis let alone PsA!! You need a Rheumatology referral I think & that seems to be the general opinion on here.

I have some hyper mobile joints which caused much 'ah ha-ing' wen I was first seen. Whether that is common with it I don't know. Could ure lower legs be hypermobile or do you mean more like bow legged from the knees down?

Remember these dry & flakey patches of skin could be dry skin n ure toe nail a fungal infection ... It doesn't necessarily mean it's its psoriasis!! Our skin tends to layer & most people find it itchy. It may be worth asking to either see a dermatologist or for a biopsy to see if its psoriasis or not!!

Psoriatic (PsA) Arthritis definitely can & does cause damage but so does OA ... I don't think any type is kind. Finding answers is wot matters the most at the moment so again, please try not to panic!!

If you have any more questions please ask away. Feel free to join in around the forum too, it's an amazing learning tool & a great way to distract ureself

Take care.xxx

Mat48

Dakky - Debbie is quite right. It's only a rheumatologist who can confirm or deny these things so the biggest must for you over the coming days is to get back to the GP and push to be referred. There is absolutely no point in worrying your head off about things that may well be proved not to apply to you. We all have times when we do a bit too much research and then go into panic. The internet exists so it's only natural that we sometimes turn detective in search of our often obscure sounding symptoms. But it can also very easily lead us on false trails and get us far more anxious than is usually warranted.

GPs do sometimes get things wrong of course - but remember they see so many patients that most of them will have reasonably good instincts for when to act and when not to. But to me the referral to a rheumatologist seems the most important step for you to push for initially. Come back and tell us how you get on. X

Dakky

Hi again all

Sorry for the continuous drone. I really appreciate all the replies, I have no one I know who suffers joint pain, so this forum and the very helpful members have been a godsend, especially regarding advice and information I can use for myself and when I see the doctor on Tuesday.

You're right as in that without being diagnosed I've got myself in a panic. I suppose I didn't realise that being as fit as I was three months ago, that the body could debilitate it's self in such a short period of time, and appear to keep going downhill so fast with no apparent reason.

DebbieT wrote:

Dakky please don't panic!!

Could ure lower legs be hypermobile or do you mean more like bow legged from the knees down?

I checked and the apparent term is knocked knees. I have been off my knees for a while due to not being able to walk any distance for a while so maybe that has attributed to it, but something structural has happened.

Thanks for the concern, sometimes I feel like a bit of a fraud reading other unfortunate disabilities and pain suffered by others on this forum. I really do wish you all my best. X

I'll let you know how I get on at the doctors on Tuesday.

dreamdaisy

I have never known the joys of a healthy body (chronic eczema and astham as a child and teen) so my arthritic deterioration comes as no great surprise. It must be far, far worse if you are coming at this from a healthy life so no wonder you are worrying about things.

Things don't usually happen quickly in the weird and wonderful world of arthritis so stop googling, OK? Make some notes for your appointment on Tuesday, pain levels, what hurts where and when, what helps or aggravates, tiredness levels etc so the doc can get the best overall picture of you as possible. DD

Dakky

HI again all,

I'm just back from the doctors, doctor is going to put me forward to a rhumey doctor to have me checked over, not sure how long it will take though.

Frustratingly a lot of my cracking symptoms weren't bothering me this morning, killing me last night though! But for all intent purposes other than my knees were shot, I looked fine.

The doctor is convinced this is an anti-viral infection, She hopes as do I, that it'll blow over. I mentioned my knees had become so bad they couldn't support my weight without pain on Sunday, and that it was also affecting my hips now, she's not sure about the knees, but hopefully I'll have a physio appointment soon.

Well I don't know what else to say, I just hope it doesn't get worse, but I can't see why it won't. Everyday seems to bring something new.

stickywicket

I hope it does prove to be a viral infection as they do, at least, go away. Anyway, you have, or will have, a rheumatology appointment so, if you do have some auto-immune form of arthritis, it will be picked up and dealt with.

Dakky

stickywicket wrote:

I hope it does prove to be a viral infection as they do, at least, go away. Anyway, you have, or will have, a rheumatology appointment so, if you do have some auto-immune form of arthritis, it will be picked up and dealt with.

Yeah, really hoping the doctor is right. I'm due back to the doctor in two weeks. I think I'll just have two stay off my feet till then, walking is causing crazy pain through all joints and tendons in my legs, I'm not allowed to take the ant-inflammatory tablets anymore due to the heliobacteria infection, so I've been doubled up on Neurontin (200mgx 3 a day) till then.

Looks like I lost my job today, due to not being able to do what I was previous doing, self employed so no recourse. I also forgot to tell my doctor half the stuff that was going on.

What a way to celebrate my 40th birthday. :roll: