Constructive suggestions for the forum

[Deleted User]

Hi,

I know this has been requested before, StickyWicket made the last request so I shall leave it in her words

I would love to have a sticky thread on which we could all post constructive suggestions for the forum.

Mods come from all over the UK (well 2 countries are represented right now), we meet very irregularly, though we have a lounge, rather like the cafe where we chat about the forum and life and all that. We follow a manual, which is beginning to be updated, so maybe now is a good time to gather ideas and thoughts.

Please understand that the majority of public forums don't allow swearing, the decision has been made there, however there should still be room for a kaleidoscope of colour throughout the forum.

Take care
Mod
YEH

stickywicket

Thank you for this thread, Moderators.

Naturally, my mind has now gone a complete blank :roll: (not an unusual state for me :oops: ) other than to suggest that maybe, for some things eg the swearing ban, it might be possible in the future to put up a poll to canvass forum users views before any action is taken.

jillyb1

How about a simple point ? If a post is deleted , a PM should be sent to the contributor explaining why that action was taken . I still have no idea why my post on the recent debate on language was removed ; I'd love to know the reasons .
Jillyb

dreamdaisy

Would it be possible to move all enquiries and comments about benefits to the Working Matters forum? The two subjects seem to be naturally compatible, the board title could be Benefits and Working Matters. DD

[Deleted User]

Hi,

Thanks for starting the ball rolling.

We now need to work out how to deal with these responses. As we are in a period of renewing the manual, I shall bring posts up to the finalisation date of the manual to the attention of the Webmanager and team each week.

After then my thoughts are
An initial check to see if the idea is workable
Invite a poll if that looks to be the best way forward with a view to compiling a wish list in the Mod section
Some ideas may be fine to implement regardless because they don't require a change in the manual.
We will give feedback as quickly as possible

Does that sound like the best way to go?

Re the suggestions above, at present we do notify any member if their post has been moved/edited/deleted. With the swearing thread that was not done, it is sometimes necessary to move/edit/delete threads, in that situation we would not notify individuals but I should have put a post to say what had been done.

Thanks
Mod
YEH

mig

If there are indeed words that will trigger a "delayed posting response " surely we should have access to such a list so we can avoid such words. Mig

mig

Just realised that wont work if we are to keep the spammers out. Mig

elainebadknee

Moderators

We need to be consistent on this forum because I came across a post by someone which was granted a few months old but had been contriibuted to recently and there was effing and jeffing all over the place, so obviously the swearing ban wasn't being adhered to all the time?

Elainexx

salamander

Moderation decisions are often baffling. The swearing one was particularly so as people were just expressing their opinion and it was all wiped out. I don't understand why you did that and people were upset.

I think you could allow members to express dissatisfaction without blocking them. Even trolls could be tolerated as most people recognise them for what they are and cease to engage after a while. I think you are a bit over protective of, and over sensitive to criticism from, forum members.

I post on quite a lot of forums but this one is the most punitive (all other forums do NOT have a ban on swearing but actually very few people do so.*) The problem is that people become timid and a bit boring and the forum can be a very dead place with a lot of repetition and pleasantries which are not actually either helpful OR supportive. I'm not saying that swearing is a necessary component of a lively forum but debate and occasional disagreement are. I think this forum is stifled in that way. I'm sorry to say it as I have been posting on here for about 4 years and have made some friends but it is not the same forum as there is no real discussion or debate.

* I also post regularly on several online newspaper comment sections and they don't censor swearing either.

salamander

My 'constructive' suggestion is to moderate in a more relaxed way.

stickywicket

moderator wrote:

As we are in a period of renewing the manual, I shall bring posts up to the finalisation date of the manual to the attention of the Webmanager and team each week.

Please may we know what 'the manual' is and its finalisation date?

[Deleted User]

Hi,

There is a manual to help Mods when they log on to do their job. It includes what action to take in some specific instances eg a member we feel may be very troubled and contemplating final action and generally when editing a post. I don't think the mod manual has been updated since the move to this site, and recent changes with the moderation queue for example definitely need adding. We do not have a deadline for the update.

Elaine the ban on any swearing was taken very recently so looking at older posts may show swear words in use.

You also talk about consistency which can be a problem where you have a number of people modding - with perhaps - different ideas on whether swearing for example should be allowed. Just like the members in general some could think anything goes, others that nothing should. Another reason for the mod manual and for coming up with a consensus every mod would be able to keep to. With swearing specifically we have to think of and take into account the views of Arthritis Care.

Within a forum with no swearing there can still be lively discussion and disagreement. You can disagree with each other and with 'rules' but you have to realise that won't necessarily mean a change. If you disagree with a particular moderation please send a pm saying why and we will look again and reply to you. I think that is what you'd do if it was a post from a mod member.

Thanks again
Mod
YEH

elainebadknee

Moderator

The below does not make sense that different moderators may find different things not acceptable...Surely if you are doing a job be it paid or unpaid you all have to adhere to the rules put in place? Otherwise what's the point? Plus even the the post was a bit older there was still comment made on it which brought it up to the top of the list on the forum so it being there with a swear word in every post made by the author seemed not right, you'd take the time to reprimand others if it wasn't deemed to be within the house rules...

Elainexx


Elaine the ban on any swearing was taken very recently so looking at older posts may show swear words in use.

You also talk about consistency which can be a problem where you have a number of people modding - with perhaps - different ideas on whether swearing for example should be allowed. Just like the members in general some could think anything goes, others that nothing should. Another reason for the mod manual and for coming up with a consensus every mod would be able to keep to. With swearing specifically we have to think of and take into account the views of Arthritis Care.

stickywicket

moderator wrote:

An initial check to see if the idea is workable
Invite a poll if that looks to be the best way forward with a view to compiling a wish list in the Mod section
Some ideas may be fine to implement regardless because they don't require a change in the manual.
We will give feedback as quickly as possible

Does that sound like the best way to go?

It sounds OK to me.

A further thought - currently, stickies by the webmanager/Mods don't particularly stand out. Even the icons are very missable. In fact, I find most of the icons very missable :roll: Perhaps a series of plain, different colours would be more eye-catching rather than the tiny emblems in the tiny circles. The stickies could be in eg red. And/or maybe the font of stickies could be in a different shade to 'normal' fonts.

I think the swearing argument is long lost and Mods need to give in gracefully. There can never be any consensus on what constitutes a swear word but I think we are all agreed that personal abuse, whatever form it takes, is wrong.

salamander

Mods, I still don't understand why you deleted all the comments in the swearing post. If, as you say, we can disagree or voice dissent, it should have been left up. I take your point about things not necessarily being acted on but to delete all the posts was an over-reaction and wrong, in my view.

I believe Sticky said something further upthread about transparency of moderation rules. If the rules were posted somewhere and some rationale for decisions were able to be read, people would have a much clearer idea about why their post was deleted or censored. Elaine also has made a very valid point about consistency and this would address this also.

From past experience, explanations from moderators tend to be something along the lines of 'I said so, therefore it is.' This in response to queries about other people's posts or their own. Again, if you understood 'the manual' it would make things clearer. Most of us on here don't want to offend anyone but sometimes people make a mistake - which begs the question, 'why can't you delete your posts in retrospect?' I would like to be able to do that on occasion when I've posted without, perhaps, thinking things through.

I agree with Sticky that personal abuse is wrong but swearing isn't. Many so-called swear words have a religious connotation which is very out of date, especially if you aren't religious.

chookgate

mig wrote:

If there are indeed words that will trigger a "delayed posting response " surely we should have access to such a list so we can avoid such words. Mig

I'd like to know what triggers a delayed posting response too. It keeps happening to me, but I can't think of anything I'm writing that could be causing it. Maybe posts with more than one paragraph?

I'm actually probably not going to bother trying to be helpful anymore, or bother posting, or possibly even bother reading this forum. It's just too irritating, I'd frankly rather put up with "offensive" language, spammers and trolls.

salamander

chookgate wrote:

mig wrote:

If there are indeed words that will trigger a "delayed posting response " surely we should have access to such a list so we can avoid such words. Mig

I'd like to know what triggers a delayed posting response too. It keeps happening to me, but I can't think of anything I'm writing that could be causing it. Maybe posts with more than one paragraph?

I'm actually probably not going to bother trying to be helpful anymore, or bother posting, or possibly even bother reading this forum. It's just too irritating, I'd frankly rather put up with "offensive" language, spammers and trolls.

I'm inclined to agree with you.

phoenixoxo

stickywicket wrote:

moderator wrote:

As we are in a period of renewing the manual, I shall bring posts up to the finalisation date of the manual to the attention of the Webmanager and team each week.

Please may we know what 'the manual' is and its finalisation date?

Just in case anyone's interested, a version of the manual is available online. I googled 'arthritis care moderator' and the third item on the list is 'Download Moderator Manual V4.0 - Arthritis Care'. It may not be the most recent version, however. Perhaps Mod YEH could advise?

I had a few suggestions floating around in my mind earlier this evening, but they seem to have floated out again, something to do with MTX no doubt. I'll try to pop in tomorrow, if I'm feeling brighter.

Best wishes,
Phee

thought it best to respond here - we are actually working with v5, however it is very similar in all respects. We will post the new manual once it is written. Mod YEH

Found the link to v5
http://www.arthritiscare.org.uk/Files/Downloads/main_content/ModeratorManualv5FinalMain.pdf

salamander

That's helpful, thanks. It all seems very reasonable.

dreamdaisy

Some of my posts are held back to be moderated which doesn't bother me.

In my view the original premise of this thread is being lost - this is not meant to be a gripe-fest about the Moderators and past decisions, it's a chance to make suggestions about how things can be improved. We all play a part in that, Mods and forum members alike. I notice that the old sticky's have been tidied up, for example no longer are we being wished a Happy Christmas for 2012, so this must give a better first impression to newcomers. I for one think that is a positive thing. DD

salamander

Slap on the wrist for me DD. But it's not really a gripe fest but I think there is a good point about understanding mods decisions.

stickywicket

Well said, DD. Thanks for keeping us all focused.

dreamdaisy

There was no slap on the wrist intended for anyone, salamander, far from it; I felt that this thread was losing / had lost its direction is all and that is what I wanted to say.

It must be a hard task to keep something like this up and running with such a diverse range of users and their varying health conditions. I am sure we are all aware that it is impossible to please all of the people all of the time, plus each individual poster uses the forum in different ways. Trying to Moderate this must be akin to herding cats. DD

phoenixoxo

Well, my mind's clearer, I have a few suggestions, but it's impossible to present them while I continue to feel downhearted for members we've lost along the way.

Sorry this isn't useful; I'm just feeling very unsure at the moment :?

Best wishes,
Phee

Mat48

Sorry if this is more about the technical side of things than the content but I do agree with Salamander's point about being able to edit or delete a comment or even a thread that we are retrospectively unhappy at having written. The window of opportunity is too short for editing and consequently I get very agitated when I've posted anything on here and in the past this has put me right off contributing to others posts as well. All it takes is for the phone to ring or something to start boiling over on the stove and wham bam that's it - opportunity to edit or delete lost :roll:

However having said this, another forum that I have used a lot wasn't moderated properly and abusive posts were written and then withdrawn as soon as the moderators returned from a long weekend away and so they never got to read or act on them. On reflection a screen grab would have been a good idea but I now use this forum only because I'm reasonably confident that the mods are around and no-one will get away with cyber bullying as I have seen happen on this other forum. So perhaps being over-moderated sometimes is just a price we have to pay for feeling reasonably safe? I really don't feel strongly enough about swearing to mind if there is a blanket ban or not. As someone else rightly said on here - plenty of hurt can be caused without the use of swear words. Mat x

mig

I have always felt safe on this forum (not had experience of any other)I shall be very interested to read the updated manual,how long before its ready ? Mig