walking or putting up with pain&discomfort

johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
time has seemed to have gone by quite quickly.

without sounding too personal, and the hurrah caused by the dwp, i know people have varying conditions, and without going on too much as i previously posted lengthy articles, i was wondering what distance is acceptable for you? or how far do you go?

i failed my dwp appeal, and i suspect it is because i can walk with pain, say to the shop, even though i'm quite nackard when i get back. (osteoarthritis in spine, sciatica, plantart fash/tarsal tunnel etc in foot

oh by the way, if anyone has an assessment coming up, do not wear a hat. or if you do, do not take it off as they will note this and use it against you.

Most people by now know what they are doing, and with pip. If someone can manage 20 metres they may not get it.

I've been looking at things, and what the dwp say in their website.
For example, what they state is that a person with a condition should take no longer than twice the time of a slower non disabled person. That's for dla but suspect they use this in other assessments.

Questions such as how did you get to the bus stop to catch the bus to get to the assessment. how did you get from the bus stop to the assessment centre? did you walk from the waiting room to the examiners office....

During my appeal, even though i was demonstating how much pain is endured, and was basically in agony and uncomfortable, they scored zero points. They asked me how i go there? i said sonce you had not given any instructions in your letter, i asked a taxi driver and he pointed it to me, it was around 400m away in port talbot 'industrial estate'. Crossing a busy ish out of town retail park type of road.

By the time i got there i was nackard, leg and back was playing up big time.

Looking at my assessment history since 2006, the first one for IB scored me points for physical just for the foot problem and passed. the next one in 2008 for IB scored me points for physical (just for the foot again) but failed me, so i appealed that and won.
The 2011 assessment for IB passed me but i was shocked that they scored me zero points for physical as these were the main things that cause the health problems and by this time, other things were happening such as sciatica. and this was before the xray confirmed the osteoarthritis in the spine.

2013 assessment for esa scored me zero points with all three things going at the same time.

Which goes back to all the previous assessments, they all asked how did i get there?


  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    an example what atos wrote on their report, i said i only go to the shop twice a week to limit the pain, and they wrote down goes out most days.

    Now they have forced me onto jsa along with quite a few others, i'm trying to work out things such as why the dwp are telling me to claim for pip. i said to them what is the point? i did try in 2009 to get it and thought my condition was not serious enough to warrant it but gave it a go. i didn't bother appealing the decline as i didn't have the energy as i already appealed the IB decision a few months before, but i managed on the money i was getting for IB.

    To get the standard rate of mobility, someone has to score 8 points. what is the problem? because of the fluctuations, the pain and discomfort is already evident when i wake up and before i get up. By the time i get downstairs it flares up more. Or if i'm sitting down and get up to make a cuppa and 10m to the kitchen, it is there. Sitting down on a computer chair flares up the sciatica, so it's a case of sit down for 5 or 10 mins then stand up again to get some circulation going.. stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down.... drives you bonkers..

    If i have to go to the shop, i have to go to the shop...just like anyone else would. If you got to go, you got to go, come what may

    Can stand and then move more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided 0 points
    Can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres, either aided or unaided 4 points
    Can stand and then move unaided more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres 8 points
    Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres. 10 points
    Can stand and then move more than one metre but no more than 20 metres either aided or unaided 12 points
  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    A lot of people are now afraid of losing their motobility car, and it is shocking. This doesn't apply to me but it does for others. And it wil make things worse, especially if there are no buses in the worst scenario in rural areas. Plus the impracticality of getting to a bus stop should they lose high rate and get standard rate instead.

    If someone is lucky enough to actually have a bus stop 50m from their front door.
    What i find bizarre is the scoring system itself, someone can get 8 points for 50m but 4 for 51m. or smeone can get 4 for 200m and zero for 201m

    If i caught a bus to the town to get to the shop, i would have 3 choices. it looks like 80m away via steps, or 150m if i go down the hill and around.
    Then there are only 4 a day. after arriving in the town, the supermarket is around 800m away (the co-op around 100m from the bus station is expensive and don't sell what i get from lidl anyway).
    If i went to iceland for milk and something else i normally get, that is around 120m walk) Lidl is aound 600m. and no buses go to tesco or lidl. well that's not quite true, mine doesn't go that way, but another service to other villages do.

    Not all of us live next door to a supermarket and live within walking criteria.

    is this 200m or 300m outdated or nonsensical and impractical?
    I do stop now and then for a quick breather or shake the leg.
    If i been to tesco, i sit outside for a while to gather some energy back up, and before i start the journey back, the leg and foot is playing up anyway as that's there all the time, just a case of relieving it for a while.

    taxi is out of the question as they cost £3 per journey, but as it's not practical as say for example i been to lidl, then went to tesco as well. so the distance from lidl to tesco is around 400m anyway.

    Is it right to pass someone fit for work who can or manages to walk, or simply manages to get somewhere and endures pain and suffers the consequences afterwards because there is no other solution?

    what are the dwp going to ask next? how did you get to your gp for prescription?

    How do the dwp expect someone to get to a shop for food if they live and somehow cope alone? regardless of distance
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,418
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I get higher rate DLA. What distance is acceptable to me? On a good day I can walk about ¼ mile but the good days don't come along too often and I certainly wouldn't be able to do it on two consecutive days. My best ever was twice in a week. If I go through a good spell I can build up to 1/3 mile but I haven't managed that since last summer. Mostly I can't sit without pain let alone walk. I haven't managed to get on a bus, except in the wheelchair, for over 30 years. As for going to the shop – I disagree. There is no way I could get to our nearest one – an off-licence about ½ mile away - if my life depended on it. Without my husband driving me I'd have to do all my shopping online.
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Pain is a fact of our lives and we have to live with it. I currently receive higher rate DLA but, once the change to PIP is brought in in my region, I am quite prepared to lose that because I use a rollator to help me get about and therefore do their required distance. I see nothing wrong with that.

    I feel for you because males have more pain receptors than females so of course you feel things more acutely. The perception of pain is as individual as us, one person's agony is another's mild twinge. I have adjusted to my pain over the years and now recognise it as useful feedback for when I am over-doing things. I pace myself with chores ('do a bit then rest a bit' is my mantra) and thanks to the broken arm I had back in January I have discovered the joys of on-line supermarket deliveries.

    Our lives are not easy, and it can seem as though those in power have the ability to make things worse rather than better but, fundamentally, how we cope is down to us. I have been in increasing pain since 1997 but so what? All the benefits in the world are not going to change that. DD
  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    no money is going to take away pain, some of it will help in making things a bit better such as helping with bus fares to take out strain, things like insoles, bits of equipment, shoes, gloves, extra heating, swomming pool exercise etc

    Make people with a condition fit for work and they are going to get worse and they will not be able to afford on jsa the little things that helped.

    Being in pain with a little reloef is better than being in pain with no relief.

    I had a bike to help me, i got it in 2009 and it was a bit of a saver, it took the strain out of waking. At the time i was so fed up with the condition and getting nowhere, i asked the specialist if it be ok to get a bike, no comment. i asked the physiotherapist and she said it's a good idea. I asked the gp and gave no comment. i asked the podiatrist and he said it was a good idea. anyway i said stuff it, i'm getting one.

    It was beneficial as i mentioned, it took out the strain of pavement walking and pressure off the foot and leg, but when i parked and went to the shop, soon as i start walking it's back.. Plus the added bonus of some exercise.

    The nhs said to me to go jogging.

    Then in october 2012, someone stole it from the town centre and caught on cctv. long story. the police were called then closed the case.. then i started putting up posters on the internet, and a year later, i had a phone call from the police saying they arrested someone as somebody somewhere recognised the picture. but the cps dropped the case, and since the bike has gone, i can't afford a new one and the condition 'got worse' again as i had to go back to walking.

  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    what the governement and their wca is doing is taking away the capability of coping by adding on extra pressure to conditions. all is well the job centre people saying you have to find a job that isn't going to make things worse.

    With a fit person, whatever the job there is going to be some aches, strains, tiredness. Maybe that fit person one day will become disabled themselves.

    Is a non disabled person in pain?

    everybody has a different sensation and varying levels. Pain is often the restrictor.

    Making someone with pain do something that the person knows will make things worse is not acceptable
  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 29. Apr 2014, 10:21
    daisy, the trouble with pacing with chores now is the dwp will see that as an activity that will be seen as capable of work. probably you, i and everyone else will see that as a load of tosh.

    what i see wrong with wca is that their findings are skewed anyway.
    For example, say someone can do 15 mins of something, then has 45 recovery time. then a couple of hours later, they do another 15 mins...

    So, over the cousrse of the day, they add all these 15 minutes and bundle it into one total. Someone may find they have done 3 hours worth even if it is spread over 10 hours... and this is the mistake the dwp is making... it is NOT 3 hours or 4 hours in a continuous run.

    how anyone has not noticed this anomaly before is suprising.

    When dwp calculate 4 hours a day, that's 20 hours a week meaning the part time threshold. then again, part time to most normals can mean anything from one or two +

    If the dwp add in saturdays as well, that is 20 hours. but the applicant can state to the dwp that they only wish to do 16 on their agreement to protect themselves.

    Same with me, if i go to the shop on wednesday, i don't go again til sauturday as i know the next one or two days has taken it out of me.
    And the dwp have said goes out most days
  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    i wouldn't expect a non disabled person with an injury to do the same tasks they normally did.

    if someone has a condition and would like to try and do some work, that's fine if that is in their capability and unlikely to worsen.
    if someone with a condition chooses to work and puts up with pain or gets worse, that is their choice and doing.

    But don't spread this across the board assuming if one will do it, all will do it
  • sheenakt
    sheenakt Member Posts: 51
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00

    I think you have the right attitude, well done, xx
  • johnsouthwales
    johnsouthwales Member Posts: 58
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    sticky... that's one plus point of shopping online. as there is a but to this, dwp will say capable of using a computer and concentrating :(
    you couldn't make it up....

    some people with dla/pip may use this as a means of paying for their online shopping whether high rate or standard.
    £5 is the norm or with iceland free delivery over £30 etc.

    My shop is variable anyway as i get things from iceland, lidl and tesco.
    Iceland usually milk every 4 days and some freezer stuff (chips, fine green beans, sausages, burgers) if and when... lidl is bread evry 4 days and whatever i want on an if an when basis.. occasionally home bargain on an if an when basis. tesco i don't get much anymore, usually for a saturday paper, some loose carrots and a couple of loose bananas, even though it is a pain in the butt to get to as there is nowhere else to get them elsewhere.

    but if someone else somewhere relies on their pip and loses it cos they can walk 50 flamin metres and lose a large chunk of income, and in the worst scenario declared FFW just to save the gov a few pounds a week.

    If someone was on esa and getting standard rate of dla, that's not too bad. losing the dla can mean not going out by bus or using that as payment for online shop.

    if they lose the dla, and pass the esa, something is not right there as basically they are the same criteria.. or if someone passes the dla and fails the esa.

    If someone cannot walk more than 200m at all, i wouldn't expect them to walk 500 or try to repeat it. even though if someone has managed to 'walk' 200m, they have another 200m to get back. that is a sign, and people should be left alone and the gov to stop harassing them.

    I don't know what it is about this country, i would give all people who cannot do 500m 12 points. all the tests are doing is to see how severe it is and end up victimising people for having a condition.

    someone who has a condition could well be passed fit for work with 12 points, and that sounds quite near to 15.. close but not close enough
    Even if 12 out of 15 is a strong indicator that something is wrong.
    A fully fit person would score 0 points, which leads to the bizarre question of how the heck are numerous people with all sorts of conditions scoring 0 points, and being compared to as if they were fully fit too
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,418
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    sticky... that's one plus point of shopping online. as there is a but to this, dwp will say capable of using a computer and concentrating :(
    you couldn't make it up....

    But you clearly are capable of using a computer and concentrating, as am I and I do get DLA.

    You might be interested in a thread near the top of the Living With Arthritis forum in which simont is asking for people's experiences on Claiming for PIP (benefit that repalces DLA) ?
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I too can use a computer but my concentration is very weak - I've read through your posts again and still can't find the nub of what you are saying. Assessments of any kind are always going to favour one over another, to my mind the greatest flaw of the PIP etc. is that the healthy are assessing the unhealthy. I class myself as unhealthy but not ill - hmmmm, a contradiction, yes?

    I finally gave up work after seventeen years of worsening arthritis. I was fortunate in that I was self-employed (and could work from home) but finally even that became too much. The drugs are tiring, life itself is tiring but it's the one I have and I have to make the best of it. I feel for those entangled in the benefits system, they are paying the price for the misuse of the system by those who knew (and know) how to exploit what was available. DD
  • Bovey
    Bovey Member Posts: 25
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Your attitude is great dreamdaisy. Wish I could think like you, but being in the benefits system does something to your mind, it depresses you. People found the system easy to exploit and we are paying the price. Bit like the bankers.