Effect of psychologial/physical trauma on Arthritis symptoms

MickyLuv
MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
edited 18. Apr 2015, 05:16 in Living with Arthritis archive
Hi All,

Guy from the helpline forum suggested that I re-post this here.

I hope someone can offer their thoughts on the questions.

I've had a combination of arthritis and psoriasis for several years. It is often debilitating, with or without the painkilling drugs prescribed.

What mainly interests me just now is there have been 2 significant events in the last few years that have removed the symptoms completely.

Both were highly traumatic events, the first one mainly psychological, due to a family crisis, the second mainly physical due to my contracting Legionella and being hospitalized as a consequence.

Diet, or lack of it may have played a significant part in both events, though the stresses involved went beyond dietary effects.

The second event in particular caused my arthritic and psoriasic symptoms to disappear completely for a period of time between six weeks and two months.

I am interested in learning more about these effects and to what extent they may be related to recent newspaper articles suggesting that a 3 day fast resets the immune system, thus relieving associated disorders.

Comments

  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hello, it's nice to meet you but I am sorry you have had to find us. I am eighteen years in with my psoriatic arthritis, and the joint damage that has caused has led to osteo in some very useful joints. I too have lived through some difficult and emotionally challenging times, including familial deaths and surgery, but have experienced no reduction in the arthritis or its pain whatsoever.

    A three-day fast may temporarily alleviate things but the key word is temporarily. Any relief gained through any method is temporary - it all comes swirling back because it can. DD
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,098
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    That's an interesting one, Mike.

    I have R.A. I know that I can get through mini-crises (eg when my sons were young and had done something to themselves that required stitches :roll: ) quite well. The downside is that I flare badly afterwards. An ongoing crisis is quite different. That obeys the accepted law that stress makes arthritis worse. (http://tinyurl.com/m2d94me)

    As for legionella – I'd guess you were given antibiotics and some people do seem to find that they can help a bit though I don't think there's any hard and fast evidence for it.

    You also have to bear in mind that, especially in the early years, an auto-immune form of arthritis can go into remission for no obvious reason at all. We all try to make connections but sometimes the pathways aren't really there.

    You write of 'pain-killing drugs'. I presume you're also on a DMARD. All that pain-killers will do is reduce the pain. They won't hold back the disease.

    As for fasting and the immune system – I've had RA for over 50 years. Newspapers have been producing 'cures' virtually every year. Unfortunately, they're the only ones who have done :roll: If you really need to check out a piece of so-called 'research' look on Arthritis Research UK who only deal in legitimate studies. Here's what they say about the immune system http://tinyurl.com/mao97rj Nothing about fasting. I fasted for about 28 hours recently for a colonoscopy and all I felt was hunger – and arthritis :lol:
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    Hello, it's nice to meet you but I am sorry you have had to find us.

    Thanks for the greeting. I'm not new here but I rarely post. Being something of a cyclist and walker, given a steady supply of NSAIDs I've been able to travel the world. I'd almost feel something of an arthritis fraud if it wasn't for the distinct seize up when I stop taking the pills, or sometimes even when I continue taking them.
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    I am eighteen years in with my psoriatic arthritis, and the joint damage that has caused has led to osteo in some very useful joints. I too have lived through some difficult and emotionally challenging times, including familial deaths and surgery, but have experienced no reduction in the arthritis or its pain whatsoever.

    I'm sorry to hear that.
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    A three-day fast may temporarily alleviate things but the key word is temporarily. Any relief gained through any method is temporary - it all comes swirling back because it can. DD

    That's certainly the impression I'm getting, though a 2 month break seems like a condition worth repeating if at all possible.
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    That's an interesting one, Mike.

    I have R.A. I know that I can get through mini-crises (eg when my sons were young and had done something to themselves that required stitches :roll: ) quite well. The downside is that I flare badly afterwards. An ongoing crisis is quite different. That obeys the accepted law that stress makes arthritis worse. (http://tinyurl.com/m2d94me)

    Thanks for the reply. As a result of it I'm trying to understand whether it's possible to differentiate between high level stress and trauma, and whether this difference would in any way change the effect.
    As for legionella – I'd guess you were given antibiotics and some people do seem to find that they can help a bit though I don't think there's any hard and fast evidence for it.

    I was given a course of antibiotics. I'm quite sure they saved my life. The lack of both arthritic and psoriasic symptoms for 2 months afterwards was quite incredible to me. Also my family found it remarkable.
    You also have to bear in mind that, especially in the early years, an auto-immune form of arthritis can go into remission for no obvious reason at all. We all try to make connections but sometimes the pathways aren't really there.

    I suppose I am in the early years of the condition. I'm not keen to go much further into it either. There must be an opt-out clause somewhere.

    I may be mistaken about cause and effect here but this remission type effect has happened to me twice now, under not dissimilar circumstances.
    You write of 'pain-killing drugs'. I presume you're also on a DMARD. All that pain-killers will do is reduce the pain. They won't hold back the disease.

    I'm on the same doses of Naproxen and Co-Drydamol, that I was on 3 years ago. This may not be very far down the drug treatment path and I spend a lot of uncomfortable nights even after taking the pills. But I'm as much in fear of the drugs as I am of the condition itself, so I try to avoid both. Not very successfully though.

    As for fasting and the immune system – I've had RA for over 50 years. Newspapers have been producing 'cures' virtually every year. Unfortunately, they're the only ones who have done :roll: If you really need to check out a piece of so-called 'research' look on Arthritis Research UK who only deal in legitimate studies. Here's what they say about the immune system http://tinyurl.com/mao97rj Nothing about fasting. I fasted for about 28 hours recently for a colonoscopy and all I felt was hunger – and arthritis :lol:

    The voice of experience comes over loud and clear. :-)

    If I was just basing these considerations on newspaper articles, or other hearsay alone I wouldn't bother. The several recent media articles about the effects of fasting on the immune system combined with personal experiences does encourage me to research this further though.
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    It sounds to me as though your PsA has not yet got properly into its stride so enjoy it whilst it lasts. Mine had a five-year head-start due to a lazy GP, who did not recognise my symptoms as being that of any form of inflammatory arthritis, the nett result being by the time I began with sulphasalazine it was too little too late. I have a friend with PsA and his is brilliantly controlled with just four sulph tablets per day - he was diagnosed within two months of his symptoms kicking off.

    The press are superb at setting down false trails of hope for the desperate, peddling the theory of diseases, the simple 'cures' and the 'miraculous' responses of those who may not actually have not much wrong with them in the first place (the blunt end of the spectrum). For those of us at the very sharp end it is a different story. The advice I have been given over the years about improving my condition, by those with no form of arthritis whatsoever, is laughable and at times downright offensive. DD
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,098
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    For many years I got by with NSAIDS and the occasional burst of steroids because there was nothing else on offer at the time. I thought I was coping OK but the disease was doing its insidious damage which is why I came to have new knees at 31. Exercise is very good but, if your rheumatologist suggests a DMARD, I'd take it.

    I'm still trying to find out how fasting helps an auto-immune disease. I can find stuff on the net about it helping immune systems to re-charge when damaged by chemotherapy but surely we have the opposite problem ie our immune systems are over-active. We don't want them all charged up and ready for action. Far from it.

    When I had chemotherapy for breast cancer, over 20 years ago, I was surprised at how well my joints tolerated it. It was only later that I discovered that methotrexate is a key ingredient of chemo. I now take meth for my RA. For arthritis, it's a much smaller dose. My RA is now better controlled than it ever was before.

    Re stress and flares. I think (and this is just guesswork) adrenalin might come into it. A little is good. A lot damages. Natural cortisone comes from the adrenal glands. We all know what an apparently miracle drug cortisone (steroids) is but, given time, it damages many organs.

    By the way, if you find that 'opt-out clause', could you let us know please? A few of us have been looking for some time :lol:
  • LignumVitae
    LignumVitae Member Posts: 1,972
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I think I may be the opposite side of your coin. Stressful situations including deaths, relationship breakdowns with an added spice of violence, work stress, house purchases, serious illness of friends and family, illness of my own have all served to stoke the fires of my arthritis. In the short term as SW states, the adrenaline kicks in and I am superwoman. Eventually, that adrenaline drops though and then I am superfeeblearthritic woman. I too have been the fit active person you describe - keen cyclist, walker, rock and ice climber. I too went for a number of years using NSAIDs and at one stage just pain relief. I am now on DMARDs, anti-tnfs, NSAIDs (COX IIs to be precise) and the occasional pain duller (less of those by the week). The only time I can record a true remission in recent years in relation to an event which affected me was when I became pregnant with twins. I'm guessing that as you are called Mike that is unlikely to be something that will occur with your body.

    Please be careful with diet and fasting options. There is lots of research available, lots of supposed cures and options to try with diets or food or elimination. Not all research is sound or strong, not all is tested by time and repeated research from different angles. Whilst arthritis causes immediate and noticeable damage to joints it is also responsible for leaving us open to greater chances of osteoporosis and other such 'side effects'. Diet can play a role in reducing or at least helping with such factors.

    I don't think any of us find the disease or the treatment easy to face, I think we would all prefer not to be on this merry-go-round. If there was a golden diet or fast or alternative remedy we would all prefer it to the medicines we take but sadly, there doesn't seem to be. The drugs aren't nice, I grant you that but neither is the disease. The drugs are not a sledgehammer to crack a nut, they are a measured and sensible response to an illogical and mean disease.
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    It sounds to me as though your PsA has not yet got properly into its stride so enjoy it whilst it lasts.

    I'm mainly trying to do that, though considering it in those terms does tend to keep a very dark cloud on the horizon.
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    Mine had a five-year head-start due to a lazy GP, who did not recognise my symptoms as being that of any form of inflammatory arthritis,

    I've found that the few doctors I've seen regarding these problems have been reluctant to use the labels "Arthritis" and "Psoriasis", though they've been quite willing to treat me with associated drugs. In fact even the psoriasis, which is there to see clearly, is difficult for me to get a definite pronouncement on. When I recently asked the doctor, "Is this psoriasis or a fungal infection?", he said "Not really a relevant question, because the conditions overlap".

    I don't know if there is some advantage for any of the parties involved in delaying or avoiding making clear diagnoses.
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    the nett result being by the time I began with sulphasalazine it was too little too late. I have a friend with PsA and his is brilliantly controlled with just four sulph tablets per day - he was diagnosed within two months of his symptoms kicking off.

    That seems like a very significant criticism. It's a real dilemma for me in that I have a big fear of and aversion to taking toxic drugs, though to miss the boat for an effective form of treatment could turn out to be even more destructive.
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    The press are superb at setting down false trails of hope for the desperate, peddling the theory of diseases, the simple 'cures' and the 'miraculous' responses of those who may not actually have not much wrong with them in the first place (the blunt end of the spectrum). For those of us at the very sharp end it is a different story. The advice I have been given over the years about improving my condition, by those with no form of arthritis whatsoever, is laughable and at times downright offensive. DD

    Dashed hopes can be very disheartening and in the long term quite harmful. I'm glad to see that you still have the energy and will to be critical and angry about the situation. That in itself must be a good sign.
  • Keren
    Keren Member Posts: 29
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Mike,

    Interesting! I have undifferentiated spondyloarthritis, which is in the same family as psoriatic arthritis, and I too started looking into fasting and diet after I discovered that I also have an autoimmune disease affecting my liver, meaning that any medication I take will make my liver disease worse.

    To start off with a caveat, I'm not one to buy into the woo. I've always in fact been very anti alt-med as a form of rebellion against a mother who believed whole heartedly in homeopathy, was fiercely antivac, and deeply suspicious of the medical industry as a whole. So for me to buy into something that feels even vaguely alt-med, there has to be evidence to back it up.

    Enter the low-starch diet, a diet I became aware of through kick-as.org, a forum specifically for sufferers of ankylosing spondylitis and associated diseases (PsA, SpA etc).

    The idea behind the low starch diet is backed up by some scientific evidence (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8835506 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678459/) and a boggling amount of anecdotal evidence. You'll find many success stories littering the internet. The idea behind the low starch diet is something called molecular mimicry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry) - those with spondyloarthritis have an autoimmune reaction to a specific type of bacteria in their gut called Klebsiella pneumonia; the higher the number of klebsiella, the more they react. Klebsiella love starch, so the more starch you eat, the greater their number. Starving them of starch kills them off and your immune reaction dies down.

    What I find interesting about your story is that both fasting and the use of antibiotics would kill off klebsiella in your gut and produce the same effect. In fact some people on the low starch diet follow an antibiotic protocol in combination with the low starch diet to great effect.

    To throw some more anecdotal evidence into the ring, I (reluctantly) started the low starch diet two years ago. Within a week my low back pain and knee pain had disappeared, and within six months my widespread enthesitis had healed up. If I push the starch, my pain immediately comes back, so I'm a believer. It's a bit of a pain to follow (I was sad to say goodbye to bread, potatoes, cake etc), but I've managed to make it work just fine, and am quite resigned to a much healthier diet as a result.

    Anyway, I hope that helps.

    Keren
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    For many years I got by with NSAIDS and the occasional burst of steroids because there was nothing else on offer at the time. I thought I was coping OK but the disease was doing its insidious damage which is why I came to have new knees at 31. Exercise is very good but, if your rheumatologist suggests a DMARD, I'd take it.

    That's a good point, clearly made and you can be sure I'll modify my approach to the problem as a result
    I'm still trying to find out how fasting helps an auto-immune disease. I can find stuff on the net about it helping immune systems to re-charge when damaged by chemotherapy but surely we have the opposite problem ie our immune systems are over-active. We don't want them all charged up and ready for action. Far from it.

    This may be an over-simplistic or mistaken view on my part.
    The way I read it, is that the immune system learns from experience. The result of this learning can become corrupted and self destructive.

    *If*a short period of simple fasting does clear the slate and give a fresh start then this may be a big help.

    Maybe even then, during the immune systems re-education period, the same faulty mechanisms would eventually reintroduce the original problems. But since the method used has been only a short period of simple fasting it was hardly a sledgehammer method.

    All the above is of course laymans vague conjecture. One question that arises as a result is: If that is the case, what happens to all the good and protective things that the immune system has learned over time? Does that get wiped too?
    When I had chemotherapy for breast cancer, over 20 years ago, I was surprised at how well my joints tolerated it. It was only later that I discovered that methotrexate is a key ingredient of chemo. I now take meth for my RA. For arthritis, it's a much smaller dose. My RA is now better controlled than it ever was before.

    I'm glad you're finding some help and relief from your experiences.
    Re stress and flares. I think (and this is just guesswork) adrenalin might come into it. A little is good. A lot damages. Natural cortisone comes from the adrenal glands. We all know what an apparently miracle drug cortisone (steroids) is but, given time, it damages many organs.

    So much to process and learn.
    By the way, if you find that 'opt-out clause', could you let us know please? A few of us have been looking for some time :lol:

    I was thinking of the universal one, apparently favoured by but a few.
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    MickyLuv wrote:
    Hi All,

    Guy from the helpline forum suggested that I re-post this here.

    I hope someone can offer their thoughts on the questions.

    I'm absolutely amazed by the helpful and informative answers I've had in response to my question. This thread has turned out to be very beneficial and reassuring for me.

    I'm in Spain just now, heading back to the UK. I'll be there by Tuesday and would really appreciate it if I'm able to resume this discussion then.

    Thanks for the help and advice. It's much appreciated.
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,098
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I guess we're all in the same arthritic boat, Mike, and sharing experiences and views can be beneficial to us all.

    Of course you may come on here any time. It's nothing personal :wink: but, as you're flying back to the UK I'll be heading west to California for a month with my son but I'll look in here occasionally still.
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I was born with a dodgy immune system, Ma's side contributed the eczema (present at birth) and asthma (which developed when I was seven) then Pa's side contributed the psoriasis which started when I was 37. My childhood happened in the 1960s, before the development of the creams, unguents and inhalers that benefit others now. I have no fear of 'toxic' drugs because my childhood was toxic with bullying and illness.

    My immune system would fire up over things which were generally regarded as being beneficial to a growing child: milk, cheese, eggs, yoghurt and fruit would destroy my skin and then came the turn of animals, plants, trees and grasses to help destroy my lungs. Did it ever learn anything useful? Whoever knows but at long last my unruly immune system is under control - I can stay in the same room as a family pet, eat whatever I like (but rarely bother with fruit, it's unreliable in quality and flavour and its acidity exacerbates my OA) so yes, bring on the toxic drugs because they have given me something which I regard as quality of life (but my standards are very low :wink: ). DD
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Keren wrote:
    Hi Mike,

    Interesting! I have undifferentiated spondyloarthritis, which is in the same family as psoriatic arthritis, and I too started looking into fasting and diet after I discovered that I also have an autoimmune disease affecting my liver, meaning that any medication I take will make my liver disease worse.

    To start off with a caveat, I'm not one to buy into the woo. I've always in fact been very anti alt-med as a form of rebellion against a mother who believed whole heartedly in homeopathy, was fiercely antivac, and deeply suspicious of the medical industry as a whole. So for me to buy into something that feels even vaguely alt-med, there has to be evidence to back it up.

    Enter the low-starch diet, a diet I became aware of through kick-as.org, a forum specifically for sufferers of ankylosing spondylitis and associated diseases (PsA, SpA etc).
    [...]

    To throw some more anecdotal evidence into the ring, I (reluctantly) started the low starch diet two years ago. Within a week my low back pain and knee pain had disappeared, and within six months my widespread enthesitis had healed up. If I push the starch, my pain immediately comes back, so I'm a believer. It's a bit of a pain to follow (I was sad to say goodbye to bread, potatoes, cake etc), but I've managed to make it work just fine, and am quite resigned to a much healthier diet as a result.

    Anyway, I hope that helps.

    Keren

    I just got back to the UK and I'm going to follow the links you've provided and other related stuff before jumping into further discussion on the subject.

    Understandably, the idea of fasting to relieve arthritic and psoriatic symptoms has met with some skepticism from more knowledgeable discussion participants than me.

    I'd be quite skeptical of such "faddy" methods myself, if it wasn't for the fact that I've experienced what I consider to be the effects of fasting on my condition.

    I didn't want to rush into making any further posts until I'd compiled a more comprehensive range of information and links on the subject but one of the first web pages I found in my latest search has so many commenters specifically mentioning the effects of fasting on their arthritis and skin disorders, that I had to offer it here:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/27ffav/fasting_triggers_stem_cell_regeneration_of/
  • Airwave!
    Airwave! Member Posts: 2,428
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Your thread hit a note, I had compilobacter food poisoning last year (Gingsters chicken sandwich from a garage) which went on for over three months, despite little food getting to me and losing 1.5 stone, arther couldn't have cared less, if anything the infection plus arther made me feel twice as bad.

    I have given up on my painkillers, 7 months now because of side affects, not that they were having much affect so now I cope with different ways, not nice but I'm not doing myself further harm.
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Airwave! wrote:
    Your thread hit a note, I had compilobacter food poisoning last year (Gingsters chicken sandwich from a garage) which went on for over three months, despite little food getting to me and losing 1.5 stone, arther couldn't have cared less, if anything the infection plus arther made me feel twice as bad.


    That's interesting. There have been several posters who've explained that unusually high levels of stress, and other extreme events in their life have made their Arthritis worse.

    My own experience has shown me that the fasting and/or specific changes in diet associated with some extreme events in my life have removed my symptoms for significant periods of time. This is usually until my diet and lifestyle have resumed their previous habitual pattern.

    I'm done some research recently based on the premise that fasting and diet can and do reduce the symptoms of Arthritis. There are many reports from individuals who've also experienced this.

    Currently, I'm on a low-carb, fruit, veg and oily fish diet.
    The only carb I'm eating is brown rice. This is at steadily reducing quantities in preparation for doing a 3 day water only fast. Already I'm experiencing a reduction in my Arthritic and Psoriatic symptoms. Before the fast I intend to spend a week or more on a fruit and vegetable juice diet.

    If this reduction of symptoms continues prior to the fast I'll be a lot closer to being convinced that my symptoms are caused by allergies and intolerance to certain foods, which are triggering mistaken reactions by my immune system.

    So, essentially I'm proceeding on the basis of 2 possible routes to wellness.
    Improved diet, or the fasting effects, causing a renewal/reboot of my immune system.

    I've found numerous websites recommending the diet/fasting methods I'm using or intending to use. These sites are very easily found if anyone is interested.

    I'll just offer a link to the most useful and convincing website I've found to date. I hope someone may find it as useful and inspiring as I have.

    Here it is:

    http://www.arthritis-alternatives.com/how-to-fix-ra/a-diet-for-rheumatoid-arthritis-the-3-day-phenomenon/

    Airwave! wrote:
    I have given up on my painkillers, 7 months now because of side affects, not that they were having much affect so now I cope with different ways, not nice but I'm not doing myself further harm.

    I've stopped the painkillers several times in the past. I found it possible but the quality of my life deteriorated fast.

    What methods are you using to cope as an alternative?
  • MickyLuv
    MickyLuv Member Posts: 35
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Keren wrote:
    Hi Mike,

    Hi Keren, lots of food for thought and further research in your post. So I waited until I'd made a bit more progress along the current route before answering.
    Keren wrote:
    Interesting! I have undifferentiated spondyloarthritis, which is in the same family as psoriatic arthritis, and I too started looking into fasting and diet after I discovered that I also have an autoimmune disease affecting my liver, meaning that any medication I take will make my liver disease worse.

    Added incentive there then, as if the original symptoms aren't debilitating enough. Naproxen which is my main med, has quite good rep but I've read that long term use can lead to kidney damage, so I'm very keen to minimize its use.
    Keren wrote:
    To start off with a caveat, I'm not one to buy into the woo. I've always in fact been very anti alt-med as a form of rebellion against a mother who believed whole heartedly in homeopathy, was fiercely antivac, and deeply suspicious of the medical industry as a whole. So for me to buy into something that feels even vaguely alt-med, there has to be evidence to back it up.

    Quite mistakenly, I'd be very skeptical and dismissive about the effects of diet and fasting if I hadn't had personal experience of the benefits.
    Keren wrote:
    Enter the low-starch diet, a diet I became aware of through kick-as.org, a forum specifically for sufferers of ankylosing spondylitis and associated diseases (PsA, SpA etc).

    Thanks for the link.
    Keren wrote:
    The idea behind the low starch diet is backed up by some scientific evidence (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8835506 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3678459/) and a boggling amount of anecdotal evidence. You'll find many success stories littering the internet. The idea behind the low starch diet is something called molecular mimicry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_mimicry) - those with spondyloarthritis have an autoimmune reaction to a specific type of bacteria in their gut called Klebsiella pneumonia; the higher the number of klebsiella, the more they react. Klebsiella love starch, so the more starch you eat, the greater their number. Starving them of starch kills them off and your immune reaction dies down.

    Fascinating and highly relevant for me, I'm working my way through the info on those sites.
    Keren wrote:
    What I find interesting about your story is that both fasting and the use of antibiotics would kill off klebsiella in your gut and produce the same effect. In fact some people on the low starch diet follow an antibiotic protocol in combination with the low starch diet to great effect.

    I'm hoping the diet itself will be enough, though I'm quite prepared to use antibiotics for as long as effective ones remain available.

    Keren wrote:
    To throw some more anecdotal evidence into the ring, I (reluctantly) started the low starch diet two years ago. Within a week my low back pain and knee pain had disappeared, and within six months my widespread enthesitis had healed up. If I push the starch, my pain immediately comes back, so I'm a believer. It's a bit of a pain to follow (I was sad to say goodbye to bread, potatoes, cake etc), but I've managed to make it work just fine, and am quite resigned to a much healthier diet as a result.

    Anyway, I hope that helps.

    Very encouraging and informative. Thanks so much for that.
  • Jonwright
    Jonwright Member Posts: 9
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    dreamdaisy wrote:
    It sounds to me as though your PsA has not yet got properly into its stride so enjoy it whilst it lasts. Mine had a five-year head-start due to a lazy GP, who did not recognise my symptoms as being that of any form of inflammatory arthritis, the nett result being by the time I began with sulphasalazine it was too little too late.

    Same here.. Seen a multitude of Gp's for about 3 years. Was given painkillers, told to roll my foot on a golfball etc....

    Was not until I seen a physio, did the physio enlighten me on what the issue might be! That's right, a physio! It was also the physio who recommended a referral to a Rhumy. But even then the Gp referred me to a podiatrists! Aghhh..

    What's so annoying is that I had all the signs of PsA. Skin, pitted nails, inflamed joints. Surely 1 out of the 4-5 Gp's I seen should have picked up on this!

    Had this been picked up when I first seen a go it's possible my condition could have been much more manageable.

    That's enough of a rant.
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    GPs know a little about a lot. 'Nuff said. DD

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