ROM Exercise

Jen
Jen Member Posts: 155
edited 18. Jun 2015, 08:38 in Living with Arthritis archive
I was reading the pdf leaflet download, it was talking about the 3 different exercises and the Rom Exercise (Range of Movement).

I am interested what peoples views are on this tai chi / qi gong you tube video (hope I can post this ok) Its for the upper body, I did it and found it helpful.

Do you think this video is both ROM and strengthening exercise movements?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vga4fJKIVqs&index=3&list=PLUJ_Dj3GQqDgkBfW5QVYdvbabq4J-azHk


I am looking for exercise for the lower body as well, there are a few things like standing one leg and rotating and flexing the ankle and standing on toe and dropping to heal, turning foot inward and outward etc. I saw the one concerning trying to pick up hanky with toes but I am wondering what other lower body ROM and strengthening exercises my be particularly helpful?

My foot is flaring at the moment and I going to try to walk as normal as possible on it shortly.

I did find on you tube one video that showed an exercise with one foot in front of the other, shifting weight to the front leg while back foot lifts the heel off the ground, then shifting weight to the back foot and front foot rests on heal with toe off the ground, then just going backward and forward like that, switching legs after about 12 repetitions. I found that quite helpful for the feet.
flower2520paars.gif~c200

Comments

  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,697
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    We have no medical training, Jen, and, although AC put out some useful examples of exercises, we each need to tailor them to our specific needs and to know what those needs are, how far we can push ourselves and when to ease off. Why not make an appointment with a physiotherapist? They'd be the right people to ask.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I can understand the desire to improve matters but be wary: all the slim and athletic people shown doing these things are very unlikely to have any form of arthritis. As Sticky said, we cannot recommend because we are all different in what helps and hinders. It may be better to ask your GP to refer you to a physiotherapist who can assess your current condition and recommend accordingly. I have been doing some exercises to improve my Achilles (both are in trouble thanks to arthritis) but these are under the guidance of a physio. As for tai chi, Pilates etc. they are a no-no because I cannot stand unaided for longer than a couple of minutes.

    We each have to find our own ways, and adjust to the new circumstances that repeatedly crop up as the disease progresses. I began with one affected joint, now its around forty and what I call exercise wouldn't be recognised as such by those who can go to the gym, do yoga etc. or partake in a sport. :lol: For me, however, it is because I am keeping my muscles stronger, more flexible and therefore better able to support my yucky joints. DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    :lol: DD you didn't view the video obviously the guy was far from a slim athletic :lol:

    Qi gong and tai chi are renowned to help arthitic conditions, but as you say we each have to find what works for us.

    Btw Sticky tai chi qi gong instructors advise not to push ourselves when we have a flare up but just to keep the movements slow and flowing.

    Sorry for all your aches and difficulties both.


    What exercises do you do DD to strengthen and keep joints and muscles flexible?

    Were these recommended to you by the physio?

    I would be interested to hear the sort of thing you are finding helpful.

    Many thanks Jen
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,697
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I've looked at the start of the movie and that guy looks to me to have a full range of movements to start off with. That's fine and I'm sure what he's doing will help him to keep that full range which is a very good thing.

    The reason why I suggested a physio consultation, though, was because many of us on here have nothing like that kind of flexibility to start with. Nor do we know what others' abilities and disabilities are.

    For the record, I personally do daily quads with weights. I was given them long ago by a physio. I also do range of movement arm exercises (from the AC booklet but also given to me by a physio) while exercising core muscles on an i-joy ride. You may google the latter but I can't say whether or not it would be suitable for you. I took to it when my surgeon discouraged 'proper' RDA horse riding in case I came off and damaged his handiwork. I had previously been approved for RDA by my doc.

    What I'm saying is that we're all different and with different needs. Many people with arthritis would gain little or nothing from my daily exercise routine because they are capable of far more. Equally, others might find it – or parts of it - too punishing because their arthritis is more active than mine is currently. Be guided by the AC booklet but also check out with a professional what is suitable for you personally.

    In the past I have asked a physio for advice about what I might be safe doing in a gym. I then went to the gym and practised it. There are a lot of options but no 'one size fits all'.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Yes Sticky I understand that. :)
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    No, I didn't view the film because, being nineteen years in, I didn't need to; it's like the stair lift ads in that those who advertise these things don't have any form of movement restriction whatsoever, as proven by the absence of sticks, crutches and wheelchairs. Of course these things are renowned for 'helping' arthritic conditions but usually by those who have little or no concept of what being arthritic really means.

    The auto-immune varieties of arthritis (which can affect those as young as eighteen months old) are complex beasts. OA is more straightforward in what can be done, diet and exercise play a part but they are not an answer in that they won't stop its progression. My exercises involve a mixture of stretches, weight-bearing, the contraction and relaxing of various muscle groups and (the most hellish of all) standing on tiptoe and holding it for longer than three seconds. I'm supposed to be up to thirty seconds by now but that's for those without arthritis. :|

    I do feel for you, it must be very upsetting, bewildering and no doubt totally unjust that your body is beginning to let you down. The latter could be due to age (I am now 56 but began aged 37) but like all machines it eventually shows the strain of wear and tear. We are mere flesh and blood (some with added titanium :wink: ).

    One downside of the forum is that those who are doing well don't post because they don't need to. I think that's a shame because their experiences could encourage those who are new so it's left to us, who are doing the best we can, to cheer you on. DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    RA is much more difficult and more painful I understand that DD

    I am actually going to a class locally and the instructor has managed her arthritis for 20 years through this exercise. You know of course what may or not be of benefit to you however qi gong / tai chi for arthritis exercise could well be of benefit to others.

    By the way I was querying ROM exercise if people thought the movements (which are for arthritis relief) in the dvd would be considered to be both ROM and strengthening.

    I am of course interested in what others are doing for their ROM and strengthening exercise.

    As a matter of interest is it just a handful of people who post here? I was sort of hoping the site was more active.
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • littleelf
    littleelf Member Posts: 69
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I can understand how eager you are; really I can. I quite literally tried about three ROM exercises from the Arthritis Care leaflet and ended up in severe pain for three days (shoulder and arm). I am now waiting (very, very patiently) for my physio appointment to come through. The GP told me not to do anything - not even swimming - until the Physio gives me a programme to follow that has also been supervised under their direction.

    Jacqui x
    True strength is smiling when you want to cry; laughing to hide the pain; and going on, no matter what. <3
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    The umbrella term 'arthritis' conveys very little about the conditions and their impact on life. Those without it are experts in what those with it should or should not be doing - after all everyone knows there are only two kinds, they affect only the elderly and can go away. :wink: Those who are only mildly affected cannot comprehend the lives of those for whom things are very different (and vice versa). I recall my halcyon days of one affected joint and laugh now at how aggrieved I felt. :lol: I am fortunate in that for me it's a natural progression from my childhood health issues but if you are coming at it from a different background it is a great deal to understand.

    I think it right to say that any form of arthritis is debilitating and painful, no mater how few or how many joints are involved. I am not sure why you thought the forum would be more active - arthritis is a very common condition which works against it, members here have other things going on in their lives such as working, being wives and mothers, carers etc. so they may lack the time to read and post. People post when they have questions, they gain their answers then float off until next time. I tend to come on here when I'm resting but luckily for everyone I will be otherwise occupied over the next couple of days. :lol: DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    DD I started to read your post then stopped because I am unsure if you are being sarcastic or just are not so well informed.

    You say 'everyone knows there are only two kinds of arthritis, they affect the elderly and can go away' assuming the wink is part of the sarcasm but unsure.

    http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/system/search-results.aspx?keywords=types of arthritis&amp;CurrentPage=1&amp;SortBy=&amp;OrderBy=&amp;ipp=&amp;fb={9273BD41-17CC-4BEF-A215-38E4D5223A8B}

    After clicking on the link above:- (in the search box put 'types of arthritis', on the left tick the box 'Conditions' - you will find a rather long list of the types of arthritis)

    You see people are not so ignorant as you seem to think and I do think your assumptions concerning this are a little narrow minded.

    I shall refrain from posting here because of your attitude, I don't find it at all supportive or helpful.

    I am sorry for any misunderstanding, I had thought this forum would be more friendly being that people with arthritis can understand the difficulties.

    Good bye

    The post was about ROM Exercise
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 27,697
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Jen, please don't take offence (where I'm sure none was intended) and remove yourself from the forum if you feel we can be of help to you.

    Those of us who have battled daily with arthritis for many years often use humour as a means of dealing with it and, as with others who deal with difficult situations, the humour can sometimes be edgy.

    It never occurred to me that DD's sarcasm was aimed at you. (Of course she's well aware of the 200 (300?) or more forms of auto-immune arthritis. She's drawn other people's attention to it on countless occasions. I was sure from the start that she was speaking not of your ignorance but of that of the makers of the video. She, I and many other old hands regularly warn newcomers of the dangers of the internet. Anyone can put up anything and make any claims they wish about it. There is no regulation. And, as regards arthritis, that's partly because they believe there are only two kinds – OA and RA. Hence my advice to you to see a physiotherapist rather than googling.

    In our defence, I think we are, indeed, a friendly forum and the Moderators soon deal with any unkindness. We do understand the difficulties others face which is why we often post to try to help them when we are feeling pretty ropey ourselves. I see, from the third page of Starburst's thread, that DD herself, having had 'a rough 5 or 6 days', was in bed by 7.30pm last night. (You might also read Sarah1609's short post below it.) We all have to make allowances on here for the pain, fatigue and sometimes utter exhaustion that others are experiencing while trying to help.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • Fionabee
    Fionabee Member Posts: 146
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi Jen.
    I watched the clip with interest, I am keen to try and stay flexible and not seize up completely, but have found it difficult to find anything that suits me and actually does me some good. I have been going to a fitness/exercise on prescription class at a local leisure centre led by a fitness instructor. She isn't a physio and I'm not sure how knowledgable she is about the conditions we all present with. She advises us to only do what we are able to do comfortably, there's no going for the burn! I manage the class, it's not too challenging, but by the time I get home, getting out the car is an effort and I am 'done in' for the rest of the afternoon.
    So I have this dilemma, should I try HARDER? Listening to my body, I feel this isn't really doing me a lot of good or am I wimping out??!
    Don't be intimidated, most of the posters on here are terrific. A few months ago I asked for advice about fitness/exercise and was a bit surprised at how few responders there were, other topics (which I suppose interest me less or I have no experience of) run and run!
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,520
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I apologise, I didn't think that you would interpret my post in such a way, I thought I'd made it clear that the 'everybody' referred to those who know very little but apparently I failed in that. I am sorry, rest assured I won't reply to any further posts you may wish to place. DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • LignumVitae
    LignumVitae Member Posts: 1,972
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hello

    I started tai chi to help my inflammatory arthritis and hypermobility. I did it in a class and I wouldn't recommend doing it at home without some form of supervision, purely because it's about precise movements and control so you need somebody to tell you how to do those things. Unfortunately I didn't find it suited me, it left my joints rather aggravated. There were others who did enjoy it though and one lady who had significant arthritic mobility issues often sat down and did just the arm movements. As I say, I would be very wary of trying something from a video clip - it is similar to yoga, it is about getting the movement just right rather than a rough approximation. I know pilates is also often recommended for a ROM and strengthening exercise.

    I'm another one who can vouch for this being a friendly place and DD is a very helpful person. Please continue to post, it is a good place to be and very supportive too. Humour does abound here because along with much of the internet offering advice, sometimes well meaning, sometimes money making to arthritics no matter what the flavour a fair few of us also get real life 'advice' from friends, relatives and even strangers in the street. It can be wearing even when it is meant to be heartfelt and supportive...here however, we understand arthritis and will happily support you and each other through the worst it can throw at us.
    Hey little fighter, things will get brighter
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Generally speaking I am not just out of nappies, nor have I only just discovered the internet, its rediculous to think all new comers need warning about the internet, what planet are you on? Such strange assumptions. Insulting even to assume such and disregarding the post topic.

    Do not assume that all newcomers will be as you have automatically considered them to be.

    Perhaps you would do well to treat new comers with the intelligence and respect in future encounters. I had come here for support with my arthritis, I expected that. I didn't expect people to make assumptions about my intelligence or experience of the internet.


    Thank you Fionabee for your reply, its precisely the sort of reply I had expected and I apologise to you for my retort to the others, life is too short to be dealing with anything other than helpful as far as I am concerned, it must have put many newcomers off posting here previously despite the rallying round to support the assuming comments about newcomers.

    That is useful information Fiona thank you for sharing that. It sounds like your fitness instructor gives good advice :)

    I find the same after exercise and even being on my feet for too long I need to rest and recover, its probably one of the things I need to pay more attention to. I think listening to the body is a good idea but also its important to keep doing what we can. I have another illness not related to bone / arthritis health that requires me to remain active so it has been a worry that the arthitis may stop me from doing what I need to as I know from experience I will deteriorate more rapidly if I don't keep the exercise going, and it is especially important as we get older for health generally. It is difficult when it hurts and we can't do as much as we need, but I guess anything is better than nothing.

    Are you finding that your pain is constant Fiona? Do you find it more difficult sometimes and a little easier at other times?

    I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, thank you again. :D
    .
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • LignumVitae
    LignumVitae Member Posts: 1,972
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    OK. I think you have made your point very clearly. People here tend to be very friendly, nice to each other and kind, that's how the support between us works.
    Hey little fighter, things will get brighter
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    LV pity it doesn't apply to all newcomers then otherwise I would not have needed to make the point.

    If you want people to assume you are a friendly bunch that should include how you behave toward newcomers.
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • theresak
    theresak Member Posts: 1,998
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I'm sorry, I seem to have completely missed this thread somehow - not been a great week RA - wise for me. From a personal point of view, I suffered really badly from a physio -NHS physio, - who pushed me too far too quickly and far too far. Even the pros can get it wrong with regard to exercise.

    We are all individuals, however many boxes people would like to put us into. While some folk do know about the many & varied types of 'arthritis' there are, it's an unfortunate fact that there are many who don't, and who completely misunderstand our problems. There are many of us here who have been told that we're far too young for 'arthritis' or it's something their granny got in her little finger in damp weather.

    I would say I'm a relatively recent forum member, and I'm hugely glad of the support I find here. Tracking back through old threads will show how much support is offered, and gladly taken. The problem with internet forums is that you only get the words on the page, not the nuances of conversation, or the expression on the writer's face.
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi therasa, what type of ROM and strengthening exercises do you do?

    I would be grateful for input as the post title suggests.

    I wasn't discussing about boxes people put us in or the lack of support here, its just something that came up as a result of remarks made. I didn't come here to do that nor post this topic to involve myself with that sort of thing, I would appreciate anyone else refraining from persisting with continuing to drag that out any longer than it already has been.

    Thank you for replying.
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • littleelf
    littleelf Member Posts: 69
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hey Jen

    I did Tai-chi with my daughter (against the docs advice and have not seen the Physio yet) :S As I'd said before, I tried to do the ROM exercises and was in pain for a long time afterwards - they are obviously not good for me and I perhaps need professional support for that sort of exercise; BUT, I felt so good after doing Tai-chi - so much so that I'm going to go to proper classes.

    I only did the warm-up and not the full set. Results: It raised my heart rate to a slight out-of-breath; my arms and hands could not do all of the movements, but I went as far as my body told me I could (if that makes sense). My hands were not sore afterwards, but I felt as though they got exercised. I found that the legs/ankles/knees area were under a lot of pressure - due to needing to balance quite a bit, stretching, leg lift and pointing feet. Despite my difficulty with the leg side of things (which is really odd as it's my upper body that's more afflicted), I got no pain from doing the warm-up. But I knew I couldn't go past the warm-up. I would think that this would build up strength in many areas, the further you advance.

    :)
    True strength is smiling when you want to cry; laughing to hide the pain; and going on, no matter what. <3
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Hi LE

    Thanks for sharing, what ROM exercises were you doing that caused you a problem?

    I think if you don't already have good balance probably you need to work on that before the free standing tai chi, you can do the exercises sitting also :)

    You mentioned leg lifts, I've never done leg lifts in taichi qi gong, that is a hard exercise to do. have your been to one of the self defence classes or kung fu ;):lol:;) that's a lot different to tai chi qi gong which focusses more on healing the body rather than martial arts kung phoey stuff :D

    I did my first class today after many months of doing it from video at home. I do have good balance and strong legs generally but when the arthritis flares I cant stand on the bad foot very well, I'm ok with both legs working together though. I did enjoy the class I learnt something new about the weight distribution when doing tai chi and moving the bottom half in unison with the top half.

    I think even just doing the warm up exercises would be good for you.

    The tutor today said aim to apply effort at 70% or less not more, she said the healing comes when resistance is less and the movement more relaxed. :D I think the training is to achieve the movements from the chi within rather than with intentional mind activated movement, more with relaxed awareness than with rigid intention. I am looking forward to more classes :D

    My foot did ache after ward but then it would have standing on for the duration of the class and I do think tai chi qi gong is good ROM and definitely leg strengthening.

    I find it very relaxing and energising as well.

    Jen x
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • littleelf
    littleelf Member Posts: 69
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    The leg lift was more to do with smooth transitioning between some moves and change of direction ... don't know what it's called. It was all rather fluid and very calming. I think like you say, that once the moves are understood fully,then it would be a most effective form of exercise.

    I quite literally did the first few exercises from arthritis care ROM. This included the finger touches, lifting the shoulders up and releasing, palms down and turn the hands Palm up, Palm down and rotate the shoulders slowly in a circle. My problem was, I think that I already had a flare in my spine and left shoulder. These ROMs made it much more painful .... I can't tell you the agony I was in for those three days after .... Oweeee.

    I have OA and scoliosis in the spine. And now autoimmune tissue disease and the start of lupus. Pains flare up all over the place. :(

    The doctor told me not to go swimming either, as this can also damage that area. This is so hard for me as I love swimming.

    I'm waiting for the physio to see me but it's been ages. I'm hoping that they will be able to give me tips for safe swimming and other exercise. Until then, I'll continue with the warm up for tai chi and playing silly games on the Wii :) I'll not go near anything at all on bad days, but rest.

    Have you spoken to the docs about exercise? Will they refer you to physio? My only concern is that in doing exercise that we damage afflicted areas more. It's all such a balancing act.

    Take care of your achey bones ;)
    True strength is smiling when you want to cry; laughing to hide the pain; and going on, no matter what. <3
  • Jen
    Jen Member Posts: 155
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    So sorry for your discomforts LE, that leg lift sounds like advanced tai chi martial arts to me. The tai chi qi gong I do is very slow and gentle movements and leg lifts don't come into it.

    I am being put off communicating here because I get the impression some people are not genuinely supporting others or allowing others to share things without judgement.

    A bit upsetting really.

    I probably won't be responding any more here.

    Farewell and all good wishes to you.
    flower2520paars.gif~c200
  • littleelf
    littleelf Member Posts: 69
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Sorry to see you go. I'm a newbie on here too. I've found the chat, advice and support very welcoming indeed and am sorry you have not had such a good experience. Such a shame as I think you have a lot to offer.

    It was nice chatting with you on the subject. Hope the tai-chi continues to work for you and you continue to do well.

    J x
    True strength is smiling when you want to cry; laughing to hide the pain; and going on, no matter what. <3