Takeaway

Airwave!

We went to a local restaurant/takeaway for our annual meetup with friends, a raucous time with lots to catch up on and renew our friendships which has lasted over 30 years.

Halfway through the meal the police and border force entered with warrants to carry out, they entered from the rear at the same time, the takeaway over the road got the same treatment, eight illegals were arrested, four from each.

One illegal said he had been here for fifteen years and has now been detained and on his way back to Pakistan via a detention centre.

No wonder we have so many problems paying for services in the UK, all illegals must be paid 'under the radar' in the black economy and the people paying them must be hiding money from the economy as a whole in order to pay them? They will all, at some time or other need to use, health, transport, council waste, water, sanitation etc etc all presumably without paying otherwise they would come to official notice.

So how many are in this country, 5.000.000, 10.000.0000? Or more?

daffy2

The grey economy is not the exclusive preserve of 'illegals' Airwave. There are (?hundreds of) thousands of traders operating outside the legal framework - the classic case is doing jobs for cash in hand, thus avoiding income tax, National Insurance, and VAT. They also all need to use services for which they are not paying the full wack in contributions, even worse they may be getting money from the system by not having, on paper, an adequate income.
Wittingly or unwittingly we are all potentially in the position of aiding and abetting such abuses of the system, by using takeaways and convenience shops, buying goods cash in hand from traders, getting odd job men to do maintenance jobs on our houses.

Airwave!

Daffy2, you are quite correct and the whole thing was brought home to me by what happened in the takeaway. I was visiting a friend near London and as we were driving home he pointed out all the housing in garages and brick build sheds in the rear gardens, all built without planning consent, how much money must these places be raking in, in rent but no council tax?

I was told that local councils won't do anything about the problem for fear of being called racist.

All this means that others must pay more and some services reduced or not supplied. Britain has a problem.

Slosh

Local councils do act on over crowded and unsafe accommodation, however until there is sufficient affordable housing this will continue as people are desperate to find somewhere to live and rogue landlords are nothing new. However it costs money and as we all know council services are over stretched and under funded. It is also an "Urban myth", that immigrants get housed over British born families, where this does happen it is usually due to another issue such s them being Asylum Seekers, or having particular needs. In London one of the main problems is the number of properties bought by overseas property owners, especially at the moment from China but then left empty for much of the year.

frogmorton

I just finished a terribly sad book called 'The Year of the runaways' written by Sunjeev Sahota. It fair broke my heart to hear how some 'illegals' have come here, why they are here and how they are exploited.

If anyone has time to read it they wouldn't regret it.

I don't think I have ever in my life read a book twice, but I will this one.

While I've been reading it I find myself looking everywhere for people who I didn't know were here who might be suffering, fear abuse exploitation. Are those chaps who hand-clean cars actually alright??

I wish I knew the answer to it all I really do. I'm not stupid I know our resources as a country only spread so far....but we all know someone who 'slightly' abuses the system...claiming tax credits when they are making money on the Q T, putting savings into kids' names so it doesn't count to claim benefits etc

Think I'd make a rubbish MP!!!

love

Toni xxx

Slosh

I couldn't agree more, and will keep an eye out for that book. These people also include women and children who have been trafficked into slavery.

frogmorton

Slosh wrote:

I couldn't agree more, and will keep an eye out for that book. These people also include women and children who have been trafficked into slavery.

Gosh yes these characters in my book were all men from India, but yes dreadful stuff happening to girls and women

Airwave!

Oh to solve the worlds problems, I can see no easy solution, it must be done on a world wide basis and we can at least start by showing a good example.

The worlds crime has followed the migration of people to our country at a time when our civil guardians are spread thinly. We cannot as a small country be an agent for those afflicted by poverty and crime around the world.

We can (as Daffy pointed out, ta.) reduce our own footprint on this innocuous crime, which I do.

The restaurant chain which started this train of thought claimed its card machine wasn't working, in reality the cash income is not going through the proper channels but being used to pay the illegally employed, last time I go there. Every Indian (and chinese) in our town has now been done for employing illegals and health problems. You don't just get a single infringment.

barbara12

You are right airwaves there are no easy solutions ..an hotel that we use was raided..and the same, many were illegal..but we had gotten to know most of them..so it was very sad..there must be so many more and living in squalor..but things have to change to keep this country afloat..Toni I will look out for the book..

Slosh

Just one thing, the use of the word "illegal " to describe people, in a way by using this term and not even adding on the word immigrant dehumanisers them, and I personally find it distasteful. Whatever you think they are people, some may even have relationships with people with UK citizenship and children who are UK born.

Yes the issue needs to be discussed but we have always been a country which welcomed those rejected by their home country or who are afraid for their lives.

Also there are a lot who do pay tax and nat ins, students who have overstayed on their visa, and others on a time limited work visa.

Illegal immigrants come from other countries as well, especially at the present time from Syria.

frogmorton

"Yes the issue needs to be discussed but we have always been a country which welcomed those rejected by their home country or who are afraid for their lives."

Good point Slosh

My own Dad was an immigrant from Hungary in 1956 he came over during the Uprising against Russia.

This year is the 60th anniversary and he was so grateful to be here and proud to become a British Citizen.

Just think if England hadn't let him in, none of you would know me!! What a loss that would have been

Love

Toni xxx

Airwave!

Hi Slosh, well everyone who lives in in GB is an immigrant including my family, several hundred years ago!!! I may not be PC in telling the tale and for the life of me would not offend and have told a tale of what is happening here, my education never included a full description of every type of person wanting to be here.

If they are not asylum seekers then what is their status? The local paper talks about a deportation centre next.

What else shall I call them?

Slosh

I just felt calling them "illegals" was not appropriate, illegal immigrants yes, it's just that bottom line they are people.

Some will also be asylum seekers and will be given the right to stay.

And as I said a large proportion are people who are overstaying on student, work or business visas and who continue to work and pay tax etc until the system catches up with them and they are deported and cannot appeal, or on very limited grounds as they have broken the law.

Others though will have been trafficked here, not always wilingly, and live and work as slaves, either domestic or in industries such as farming.

On a related issue the Government has still not given a safe home to any of the unaccompanied child refugees it promised and children in the Calais Jungle are starting to self-harm and there are real fears of suicides once the jungle is cleared. I do not condone the actions of those adults in the jungle who intimidate HGV drivers but the children as everywhere are innocent.

There is no easy answer, and yes we are a small island, but we are also all part of the same human race and also have to be honest about the part past actions of our governments have played in this.

I will now get off my soap box!

Airwave!

If we all had the luxury of eye to eye contact and a relaxing time to spare on getting to know each other we may well find an accord. A few seconds answering a forum with one finger typing do not help.

Yes I know there are many inequalities across this world, we can help by showing awareness and what can be achieved, we do assist the third world with money and in other ways, we cannot be an answer for the worlds ills.

Yes we all live in the same world and in different times we along with everyone else took advantage of the world, it was all 'of its time'. Many countries have a resposibility to their populations which go unfulfilled, we as a country have found ways to solve the problems of society, it has taken us a good 1000 years.

stickywicket

Airwave! wrote:

we as a country have found ways to solve the problems of society, it has taken us a good 1000 years.

Really? Which have we solved? Now there's a topic for discussion.

Why are so many of our population are addicted to illegal or prescription narcotics?

Why are others so addicted to junk food they have developed Type 2 diabetes or lifestyle types of cancer?

Why does one in four people in the UK have a mental health problem?

Why do 1 in 10 UK children aged 5 - 16 suffer from a mental health disorder?

Why do 95% of imprisoned young offenders have a mental health disorder?

Why does Britain's richest 1% own as much as the poorest 55% of population?

Why do most other countries including Slovenia, Estonia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic educate students to a much higher standard than Britain?

I really don't think we've even started to 'solve the problems of society'. Indeed, we seem to have created many.

Slosh

I couldn't agree with you more Sticky.