Assisted

Quintus

I have no idea if this belongs to the chit chat forum or elsewhere.
Yesterday I was told that someone of my entourage has booked a one way ticket to Switzerland. He won't come back, since he goes there for assisted suicide. He is young and will leave two teenage children and his wife. Surely his health situation is totally hopeless. He would die very soon, anyway.
I have been confronted to suicide in my past. That is ONE thing. But this is different. It implies a lot of paperwork etc.. plus the problem of going abroad to do that. AND a whole lot of heroism !
Since I was told yesterday I ask myself a lot of questions. Yes- I do appreciate the possibility to end ones life if it becomes totally unbearable. But ...
I don't know... I am a bit at a loss here. And I do not want to imagine the scene tomorrow.
The taxi to the airport will come. He will kiss his children ... weil not au revoir, of course. I simply be at al loss here.
And again- I am really for assisted suicide in the case of hopeless suffering.
Right now I can't help my tears...

[Deleted User]

Hi Claudette,

It's very sad to read this, that someone feels this is their best option. I'm sure it has been carefully thought about and discussed by the family.

It will be very sad for you tomorrow, if you can plan a quiet, gentle day, with time for remembering the good times you've shared perhaps.

With love
Yvonne x

stickywicket

Oh Quintus I'm so sorry. The loss of a friend - and a young one at that - is so hard to bear. When it seems that they are choosing this way, however valid their reasons or hopeless their physical condition, it must come even harder.

I imagine your friend, and his family, must all have great courage but..... Like you, I have my reservations. There is something I find abhorrent about making a killer of someone else, however willing they are.

So, I don't think I could ever take that route. I rather hope I couldn't..

Tomorrow will be difficult for you and for others. Try not to be alone with your thoughts.

((( )))

Quintus

No, it is not that! Of course I do not like the situation. And yes- my heart goes out to the children and his wife. And I simply can't imagine what is going on in his mind.
I have always been for assisted suicide if the situation becomes totally hopeless and painful. But I admit I did not think about someone rather young
With children and all that. And someone I know, of course. Stupid, I know. Death and disease will strike whenever and however it likes. The question is still there: take your life, assisted, legally, in a dignified environment or just fight it out until the end. As nasty and horrible it may be...
Suicide, even assisted, has been a rather common option in roman times, as far
as I know. Is it simply a question of religion to find it so strange? Even if life becomes unbearable? I don't know. After all I think it is a very personal decision. And despite of the
Situation at hand I think I am really greatful that one just may decide to opt for assistance as in Switzerland for example.
I don't know, really...,,,,

Airwave!

I am just watching someone go through a self imposed passing away, its probably more upsetting for me than the person. Perhaps living is worse than eternal peace?

Quintus

Yes Airwave- perhaps it is. Perhaps it is...

dreamdaisy

I agree with Airwave, I think it far harder for those around the dying person because there is nothing they can do to change the situation. I have always felt that assisted dying is the right course of action for some but two things must be borne in mind: it's something that has quietly happened medically for years and there are very vulnerable patients who could be open to manipulation by grasping or scheming relatives: there would have to be safeguards of some type to protect the patient.

In my opinion assisted dying is not suicide by another name: when one actually knows what the future holds due to terminal illness, to decide that enduring that is not an option for oneself or one's family is brave. I think it appalling that one has to travel to a dingy building in Switzerland to be able to perform what I see as a human right: we have no say in when we are born but I see every reason for us to determine our end. We do it for our pets (or sometimes not, my BIL has recently enabled his dog to endure months of degradation because he couldn't bear to part with him, that's not love, that's selfishness pure and simple) but I hope it's something I would have the courage to do should it be required of me.

I think there is something comforting in planning one's end: your family are prepared, certain legalities have to be observed so that side of things is neat and tidy, it is a controlled process: I think it wrong to deny those in such a situation that right. In these modern times we are not good at death, not good at talking about it, planning for it, dealing with its necessary practicalities: very few of our friends have made wills which I find both astonishing and ridiculous. 'I can't bear to think about is,' is the whine. When it's been dealt with you don't have to.

My thoughts are with both of you, Quintus and Airwave: these are hard times for you both. DD

daffy2

'I can't bear to think about is,' is the whine

And of course it won't be their problem....Presumably they are happy to inflict completely avoidable difficulties on their loved ones at an already very difficult time.

stickywicket

And the result is....

I think one of the worst funerals I attended was of a friend, a lovely lady who died too young. She had always said she wanted Eric Idle's "Always look on the bright side of life" at her funeral and, desperate, as all relatives are, to give her what she wanted, her husband arranged it.

What had been funny at gatherings of friends became grotesque as her tearful family stood round the coffin at the crem to say their final farewells.

Everyone should let their loved ones know what they want for their funeral. "I don't care once I'm dead" is of no help to them whatsoever as they strive to give them their ultimate gift.

Quintus

Dreamdaisy: I agree absolutely. It should definitely our own decision when and how.
It is the "that" that may be so difficult to accept.
By the way: the building in Switzerland is far from being dingy.

daffy2

Quintus wrote:

By the way: the building in Switzerland is far from being dingy.

There was a TV documentary sometime ago and I have to say that dingy, or perhaps drab, is the impression that stayed with me. I think perhaps I has expected a room that looked a bit more like a hospice than purely functional, and judging from discussions among friends subsequently that was their view also.Perhaps this arises the same view as the wish to be ill at home rather than in hospital - being able to have those things around you which are important and give pleasure, some small measure of control when all else is out of your hands. Functional does the job for the body but not the soul.

Quintus

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/inside-simple-dignitas-apartment-grandad-9427724
Ok, as a designer and architect I would not choose this kind of design. But dingy? As far as I am concerned I would rather end my life in a cave up in the mountains. But I still appreciate the idea of being able to end ones life legally "assisted". It is the fact that leads to do it that makes me sad.
I probably do not find the right words.

dreamdaisy

Quintus, I think you are very good at finding the right words. Death is inevitable but the how, when and where is usually unknown. In the case of assisted dying that can be planned which makes things much easier for all concerned. Yes, it is sad that this can happen but it comes to us all - the opportunity to exercise a legal choice about the timing of that event is something which should be available to all, should they wish to go down that route.

My ideal death would happen at home, peacefully in my sleep. DD

daffy2

Thanks for the link Quintus. That is certainly different from what I remember of the TV and much more what I would have expected.
As DD says we are not good at death, and regardless of one's view of Dignitas at least articles in the press give the opportunity to initiate discussion.
Even in the best run families disagreements can arise due to the very human conflict that arises between not wanting a loved one to die and being aware that for that person continuing life is an intolerable burden. Setting out hopes and wishes for those end of life situations at least removes the 'what would s/he want' dilemma. Carrying out those wishes is a whole other issue....
My mother was very well organised and had sorted out her 'Living Will' so we all 3 knew her wishes about resuscitation and prolongation of life well before there was any need to have to consider them. Faced with the reality of honouring those wishes however my middle sister found she had a problem and there were some emotional and difficult exchanges. Five years on and one bit is still niggling away at her and has caused something of a difficulty in a previously satisfactory relationship between her and the youngest sister; I am stuck in the middle and she still somehow expects me to put it right for her. Heaven knows how all this would have played out if we hadn't started from a good relationship and mum's wishes being known.

stickywicket

Unfortunately, we don't necessarily know what the implications of our choices are and I'd urge everyone to research them.

The Liverpool Care Pathway for end of life patients became so much abused that it had to be abandoned. It became as a 'tick box exercise', with patients being casually assessed as terminal, heavily sedated, and denied water so the diagnosis became self-fulfilling. Hospitals were even given cash incentives for the number of people dying on it. Definitely a case of 'caveat emptor'.

Hospices seem the best bet to me.

Quintus

Sticky wicket : that is absolutely horrible! Are you sure about it? That reads more like murder!

In some of our hospices here cats are employed. They are put on the beds of dying patients. I hope someone will put a cat on my bed when I am leaving....