Gum disease (P.Gingivalis) and rheumatoid arthritis

Arthuritis

I found this old post from 10 years ago

https://community.versusarthritis.org/discussion/comment/555051#Comment_555051

@stickywicket

I don’t even know if the Original Poster is still around, but there has been some proper science since, by a number of researchers, in the UK notably by Prof Patrick Venables at Oxford Uni’s Kennedy Rheumatology Institute, however recognition let alone understanding & acceptance tends to always lag. (Let’s face it, even 10 years after h.Pylori was established as the main cause of chronic ulcers, doctors were still prescribing PPIs and carbonates and asking patients to consider stress reduction techniques to treat the defect).

If you Google “Heightened immune response to autocitrullinated Porphyromonas gingivalis peptidylarginine deiminase: a potential mechanism for breaching immunologic tolerance in rheumatoid arthritis” + BMJ

you should get the full article on the science & mechanism.

Kennedy institute receives a grant from Versus Arthritis, does anyone know how to get an update from them on where they are with this?

Or has anyone heard /investigated anything further?

Arthuritis

@Roadback @dreamdaisy @bluefish … Are you still around?

It’s been a while but both myself and @Hairobsessed123 are off MTX with relief from autoimmune symptoms following serendipitous treatment for an unrelated infection. We don’t know how long it will last but we hope it will be long. I was on the max dose and still barely coping. @Roadback your comments were hugely insightful, and I only wish I’d been aware back then, so I could avoid getting into this mess.

stickywicket

I hope it wil be long too. Please keep us updated.

You can, if you wish, check out @Roadback 's posts but i see that he/she is now banned.

Arthritic life is never straightforward🙃

Arthuritis

@stickywicket That’s strange. I wonder why? The few posts I saw seemed to be intelligent and articulate.

Hairobsessed123

Wow I had an operation on my wisdom tooth where they removed all surrounding tissue from wisdom tooth and my god it’s the worst thing I ever did the pain and infections I had afterwards bloody ridiculous! Does this mean that could have triggered my psoriatic arthritis makes sense if it did ! Because I was fine before that !!!

@Arthuritis

jamieA

@Hairobsessed123

The hospital covid triage consultant I saw reckoned I'd had covid 6 months before any sign of PsA and the rheumatologist reckoned that could have triggered it. The rheumatologist said that infection can trigger PsA but that the origin of my PsA was probably genetic which was then triggered in later life by an event. I suffered from psoriasis from the age of 14-15 and my father and 4 siblings all also had psoriasis. I'm the only one to develop PsA though - at the age of 65. It was also suggested that the number of different antibiotics I was prescribed when my possible covid was attributed to a chest infection by my GP was also possibly a cause. I'd been given 4 different antibiotics over a 3 month period including one I had an allergic reaction to even though I'd been prescribed it in the past.

I suppose since PsA is your immune system attacking your joints any infection could be a trigger. If you look at covid and what killed many people was a cytokine storm with IL6, IL17 and TNF alpha all mentioned. These are the very cytokines that some of the biologic drugs used For IMID patients suppress - so there does appear to be a link. In fact these biologics were considered in the treatment of covid patients.

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-022-01814-1

Arthuritis

@Hairobsessed123 Its possible, but it would need a really sharp doctor willing to think for themselves and “rock the boat” to figure that out. Read about Dr Barry Marshall, who won a Nobel prize after proving that chronic peptic ulcers were curable and not a stress related disease. The peptic ulcer meds of the day were very lucrative (PPIs & antacids) which cost a fraction of a penny to make and cost pounds to buy. Then along comes Dr Marshall about to crash the gravy train of pharmas sponsoring doctors on junket conferences to keep prescribing their pills. So naturally he was met with hostility and scepticism when he tried to publish a paper in the lancet that some cheap antibiotics could cure a painful chronic disease. His paper was initially rejected, as the peers said there was not enough evidence of human efficacy. What he didn’t know is one one of the peers reviewers was sponsored by the pharma making the pills. Undeterred he decided to prove it with before and after infection biopsies- on himself! This time there was irrefutable proof and the paper was duly published, decimating the industry, and once very expensive prescription only PPIs went to off the shelf! It’s one of the most profound cases of medical dogma getting in the way of good medicine, but few docs are aware of it, and even fewer willing to acknowledge it is still applicable today.

The rheumatism industry has a similar financial profile as a $47bn pa sales industry, and the pharmas have zero incentive to change that.

So in short, it would prob take another rebellious Aussie doc (not uncommon there) to rock that boat. 😏