The Decision.
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Mat48
Member Posts: 1,075
Hi. After my last post about fizzing and buzzing with all over pins and needles I thought I'd update. I've decided, off my own back, to come off Methotrexate. I have been on it for 19 months and have already tried Sulfasalazine and Hydroxichloraqine. Sulfa gave me swellings on neck and ears and a very itchy all over purple rash and Hydroxy was fine but didn't do much at all.
Injectable MTX has been brilliant for my joints - either that or RA has just upped and left (well it's always worth hoping a bit).
This will be the second time I've come off it. Last time was just for a month in March/ April to see if it was causing the awful taste I was suffering and give me a break from the nausea. I found that after 3 weeks the pain and swelling came roaring back in my right arm - shoulder, elbow, wrist and knuckles and I was splinted and dosed up with Naproxen for nearly 3 weeks. Back on the Metoject and off it went - and despite reducing doses twice the pain has never returned. The bad taste went away finally when I reached 12.5mg 7 weeks ago and no pain or swelling still.
But then the pins and needles arrived. And these are just defeating me now - they are everywhere and I'm getting beside myself with worry about it - scratching myself madly all the time although it's all subcutaneous so there's no rash and cream doesn't help at all.
I went to see a young, newly qualified GP today to see if they could tell me whether MTX induced neuropathy causes long term damage to the nervous system. She couldn't tell me either way because it is so rare - and said she would try and research and talk to my other GPs who are both off this week. I felt a bit bad because I must have been the patient every GP dreads, let alone one who has only been qualified for a week! She looked at all my blood results and said she agreed with my usual GPs - the culprit had to be the Methotrexate there is no other explanation. I sat there scratching and rubbing and must have looked like a complete nutcase :roll:
Came home and decided to google Methotrexate and neuropathy - which is listed as a very rare side effect along with bad taste. An NHS cancer drug page flashed up and it said that this kind of neuropathy can cause lasting damage for some but goes away after chemo treatment is finished for others. I know I'm on a far lower dose than any chemo patient would be but I've also been taking it for much longer.
That's when I make a decision. I just can't subject my body to any more of this. I know it's very rare but so was the awful taste and that wasn't in my head. And swelling of neck with Sulfa was very rare but somehow I landed that too?
I wonder if RA has ever upped and left for anyone - I know it's very unlikely but I currently have no swollen joints and no pain. If the RA was still active this wouldn't be such a hard decision and I would have qualified for anti-tnfs. But even RA isn't worth risking damaging the nervous system for I feel.
So that's my decision - no more sharps bin or Metoject for me. If the pins and needles continue to get worse like this I'm going to be demanding an MRI and a referral to a neurologist. If the RA comes back there's always Naproxen and Hydroxichloraquine again (never understood why they took me off it anyway!).
Sorry for long rant - I'm feeling so emotional as I fizz and burn - but I just had to get all this off my chest.
Injectable MTX has been brilliant for my joints - either that or RA has just upped and left (well it's always worth hoping a bit).
This will be the second time I've come off it. Last time was just for a month in March/ April to see if it was causing the awful taste I was suffering and give me a break from the nausea. I found that after 3 weeks the pain and swelling came roaring back in my right arm - shoulder, elbow, wrist and knuckles and I was splinted and dosed up with Naproxen for nearly 3 weeks. Back on the Metoject and off it went - and despite reducing doses twice the pain has never returned. The bad taste went away finally when I reached 12.5mg 7 weeks ago and no pain or swelling still.
But then the pins and needles arrived. And these are just defeating me now - they are everywhere and I'm getting beside myself with worry about it - scratching myself madly all the time although it's all subcutaneous so there's no rash and cream doesn't help at all.
I went to see a young, newly qualified GP today to see if they could tell me whether MTX induced neuropathy causes long term damage to the nervous system. She couldn't tell me either way because it is so rare - and said she would try and research and talk to my other GPs who are both off this week. I felt a bit bad because I must have been the patient every GP dreads, let alone one who has only been qualified for a week! She looked at all my blood results and said she agreed with my usual GPs - the culprit had to be the Methotrexate there is no other explanation. I sat there scratching and rubbing and must have looked like a complete nutcase :roll:
Came home and decided to google Methotrexate and neuropathy - which is listed as a very rare side effect along with bad taste. An NHS cancer drug page flashed up and it said that this kind of neuropathy can cause lasting damage for some but goes away after chemo treatment is finished for others. I know I'm on a far lower dose than any chemo patient would be but I've also been taking it for much longer.
That's when I make a decision. I just can't subject my body to any more of this. I know it's very rare but so was the awful taste and that wasn't in my head. And swelling of neck with Sulfa was very rare but somehow I landed that too?
I wonder if RA has ever upped and left for anyone - I know it's very unlikely but I currently have no swollen joints and no pain. If the RA was still active this wouldn't be such a hard decision and I would have qualified for anti-tnfs. But even RA isn't worth risking damaging the nervous system for I feel.
So that's my decision - no more sharps bin or Metoject for me. If the pins and needles continue to get worse like this I'm going to be demanding an MRI and a referral to a neurologist. If the RA comes back there's always Naproxen and Hydroxichloraquine again (never understood why they took me off it anyway!).
Sorry for long rant - I'm feeling so emotional as I fizz and burn - but I just had to get all this off my chest.

If you get lemons, make lemonade
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Comments
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It sounds tricky. Sometimes the side effects of certain medications are actually worse than the condition itself. RA can and does go into remission, both drug induced and occasionally, spontaneous remission. It sounds like the MTX has been controlling your symptoms but I suppose you'll only really know when you come off it, if that's what you decide to do.
There are other DMARDs; azathioprine and leflunomide to name two, as well as some other less commonly used ones, so you do not have to yet go down the anti-TNF route if you're not ready. Have you spoken to anyone from the AC helpline? Also, the NRAS helpline has been fab when I've phoned with medication related dilemmas, they have good medical knowledge.
All the best of luck with your next steps.0 -
Thanks so much Starburst. I will phone NRAS helpline tomorrow good thinking. But I feel happier in myself at the thought of coming off. As you say there are other DMARDs still to try if I need them and I certainly don't qualify for anti-tnfs yet anyhow. XIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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Just a quick update. My GP has emailed me to say he supports my decision to come off Methotrexate, as being "entirely reasonable" and he will email my consultant to see what happens if the RA "re-activates". I feel a lot better for having him on side now so won't be phoning the NRAS helpline today after all. XIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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It's good to read ure GP backs ure decision. Lets hope ure symptoms diminish ASAP now uve stopped mtx.
Hopefully ure rheumy has something else for you to try on ure next visit!!
Best of luck, take care.xHealing Hugs
Debbie.x0 -
Thanks Debbie. I won't see rheumy again for a year probably but me GP can prescribe other drugs as the consultant advises. I think it will probably be a year of Hydroxichloraquine with naproxen and steroids where necessary. On one hand I'm hoping the MTX hangs around giving me protection but on he other I'm just desperate for it to be out of my system - my knees, calves and feet are all really numb - as if a local anaesthetic is just starting to work. Oh well its a scary old world sometimes. XIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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I have no knowledge of what you're going through, just wanted to send virtual hugs. Glad your GP is supporting you, hopefully you'll find some respite soon xToots x0
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I've been off of mtx for 6 wks & the last 2 have been grim. I'm in fibromyalgia & psoriatic arthritis flares ... I truly hope you don't flare too!!
Wen I had pins & needles, which is on going btw, I described it as feeling like a dental injection as ure mouth just starts to come back to life!! I think the continued symptoms are caused by the large pineal gland cyst they found in my brain tho the neurologist disagrees ... In America I'd most likely had an operation to remove it but they're just gona re-scan me 1/12. Oh well.
I often think I'll never really know the truth of it all. I hope ures rights itself so ure not left wondering too.
xxHealing Hugs
Debbie.x0 -
Gosh thanks for telling me that Debbie. That must be scary for you but we just have to place our faith in these drs and hope like hell its not blind faith. I am not sure whether they will ever look very hard since they feel they have the culprit in the methotrexate. Most of me agrees but a part of me is left wondering what the strange heat surges in wrists and feet are about as I've had these for a few years longer than I've taken MTX and they seem to relate to the other neuropathy as in same places and same surges to start with.
Poor you being in flare. I dread the thought of pain and pins and needles but its quite possible I know. XIf you get lemons, make lemonade0 -
It's all just dreadful for you Mat. I'm glad to hear you made your decision and are backed by your GP. Did he say anything about length of time it will take for possible relief if it is the mtx? If it doesn't stop, are you going to try the B12 then?
xxAnna0 -
Hello Mat
I am sorry I know nothing of these drugs, but I can really understand how you must be feeling right now..its so blinking unfair that the meds are working well then you get the side effects..please don't apologies for the long rant you really needed to get that out,,and I for one don't mind listening..I just wish I could help more but you know we are always here and I do wish you well for the future..who knows what will turn up xLove
Barbara0 -
Eyes now welling up! Thanks so much Barbara that's really kind of you. XXXIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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Anna - GP has only said by email that my "decision to come off MTX seems entirely reasonable" to him and he will write to my rheumy to let him know and point out that he feels I had no choice but to come off this drug. Nothing more, no comment on what other stuff could be causing the polyneuropathy. He thinks it's unikely to be anything neurological because my MCV was still just within reference range at 97.8 (upper limit 98) so on that basis they are assuming it's a rare side effect of the MTX. And they tell me that they treat the patient and their symptoms not their bloods?!
I explained to the young newly qualified GP I saw yesterday that my hands have never returned to clenching or gripping properly and wrists are always weak. The rheumy just shrugged and said "early wear and tear perhaps?" I've only had a verbal diagnosis of L5 degeneration from my physio in January - the rheumy just dismissed my account of locking hips as being "lower back problems from early wear and tear - keep active". But based on what exactly? No examination or x-rays or MRI ever -apart from hands which were fine from x-rays in March -requested by me I might add! If my legs carry on feeling this numb I will phone the GP tomorrow and sock it to him I think. I'm feeling very angry now! XIf you get lemons, make lemonade0 -
Hello I have read a few people who have come off meds and their arthritis has stayed in remission for a fair while at least. Hope it stays aways for a very long time for you preferably forever.How am I gonna be an optimist about this?0
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Thanks both - I hope it stays away too but I'm not counting on it. XxIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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No harm in trying Mat. I have just come off MTX (as advised by my Rheummy) as I have had issues with my chest and lungs. I am relieved as I hate the stuff but if the lung symptoms continue ( and this week they have been bad again but I had a steroid injection so trying to see if that is the cause)then I'll have to consider restarting it again. Just take a small step at a time.
ElizabethNever be bullied into silence.
Never allow yourself to be made a victim.
Accept no ones definition of your life
Define yourself........
Harvey Fierstein0 -
I've been putting up with one side effect after another for 19 months now Elizabeth - from liver to nausea to blisters to mood swings to constant bad taste and other sensory issues. This numbness was one step too far though.
Although I feel there is a small element of patient choice involved here I believe this is overrated. To choose between lung problems or polyneuropathy and RA symptoms is like asking someone to choose between drinking sea water or nothing at all it seems to me? Can't you just refuse to struggle on with MTX and insist that you now qualify for an alternative therapy (that word seems inappropriate in the context of these drugs doesn't it?)? Mat xIf you get lemons, make lemonade0
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