Please Explain how Ill Health Retirement works

kittymedaughter

I work 4 days a week in a office, I have been in my pension for almost 15 years and I am 49. My health is getting worse and it is getting harder and harder to continue to work.

How does Ill Health retirement work?
Do i ask about it, is it an option if i go long term sick?
What does the different tiers mean?
If you recieve an ill health pension can you still claim ESA?

sorry for all the questions but i am really unsure how it works

Many Thanks
Kit

maria09

Hi
It's not an easy process I should know!
Got mine after almost a year of trying
If you work for a big firm contact payroll ask about a pension prediction for ill health retirement if they don't know they will put you in touch with your pension person
Mine were all in one place so it was easier
As for ESA it will depend how much pension you get I don't claim ESA any more as they are such a nightmare you will have to have an Atos medical who say everyone of us is fit for work
Pm me if you think of any questions I could help you with
Maria

lululu

Hi Kit, It is difficult for many people, you need to consider long term implications ie. your state retirement age is likely to be 67 (if the Gov. do not put the age up anymore!) that is a very long way from 49 and you will not get state pension till then. Ill health retirement may be granted but then you have the charm of Atos to contend with untill state retirement age, that is unless you have independant means, ie. a private pension enough to keep you long term or any partner/spouse to support you. Yes you can claim ESA but do not assume that because you are medically retired from your job Atos will agree taht you should get ESA.
One advantage of claiming ESA is that your Nat. ins. will be paid that will be needed if you will want a full state pension when the time comes. I was medically retired nearly two years ago I have a pension from work but need more so ESA it is as I am on my own and can't get state pension till 63 I am now 60 I am lucky that so far I have not had to have Atos medical. However unlucky in that I really am not well enough to move but need to because I have a spare bedroom and have to pay an extra £60 per month bedroom tax, after working since my 15th birthday I feel a little bit cheesed off to be in such a situation, especially as I know lots of skivers who have just expected and got so much for free all these years but such is life. So these are some things which may not be obvious to you Kit but well worth knowing about. Good luck.

lululu

Sorry Kit I forgot have you considered claiming DLA you may b eligable could be very useful if only to allow you to reduce your work days more, I so wish I had been given the option of reducing my wrk days.

lulubell69

Hi kit
I was I'll health retired a couple of months ago, my choice, absolutely no stress, no problems, I think they were pleased to get rid of me!
I worked as support staff in a college for ten years, part time, 24 hours, term time only. After working there for a year I was very suddenly struck down with very severe RA. In total over the ten years I was off sick for 4.5 years altogether. About six months ago I became very poorly I tried desperately not to go off sick, however I was late everyday and not able to carry out any duties- so they didn't give me any !!
One day in march I collapsed in the staff room after trying to walk from the car park, through my sobs I told my manager "I'm done, I've had enough" within 3 hours I was at HR discussing "My options".
I stated I wanted Ill health retirement, tier 1, (highest payout,). Told I would need a medical from occupational health and a letter from my consultant. All went in my favour. A couple of months later I received I huge lump sum and a monthly pension for life.
I am now in the process of trying to claim esa. I receive higher rate dla for both.
However, I must stress that if not under control my RA is very severe, my consultant said I was one of his worse cases. I have just had an anaphylactic shock due to a severe reaction from my latest treatment, so now I've had every treatment available, don't know what's next.
Forgot to say I'm 44, married with 3 children, one with severe disabilities.
If you need any more info please ask.
Les

maria09

Hi kit
Morning
I'd just like to say I retired 13/3/13 official date
I went off sick 26/2/12 after 6 months I realised there was no way I could go back to work so June I decided to go down the ill health route
Mine was not an easy transition into ill health retirement
But in January this year I was offered tier 1
There are two tiers 1 is that you can't do the job you do but could work but in a small capacity
Tier 2 is when you can never work again that is the highest on and more difficult to prove
I know more people who have tier 1 and no one with tier 2
Tier 2 lulu must be the one you are on if you got the highest payout
The other fact is that it is not up to you to ask which tier you want they assess all your information eg letters from GP Consultants etc
I had evidence from a) GP b) Occupational Health Doctor c) Rheumatology Consultant d) Orthopaedic Consultant
I also put in all the dealings I had with HR and my ward manager regarding my sickness levels, written warning, losing appeal regarding written warning absolutely everything possible I thought I would need to help my case
So 8 months later I got my ill health retirement
The information is dealt with Atos who also work for the DWP
Maybe it's because I worked for the NHS and their pension criteria is different from Lulus but not sure I thought everyone went down the same process
I started my nurse training in may 1982 and on the 26/1/13 I terminated my contract if I had not got Ill health retirement my contract would have been terminated due to length of time of sickness therefore incapable of continuing with my work after 30 yrs so at 49 I was able to retire
I think Lulu is one of the few who have had an easy passage through ill health most of us on here have had a very rocky road down this route
I hope yours is plain sailing
There are lots of posts on here regarding ill health it might be worth going back through them to see what experiences others have
Keep strong
Maria

maria09

Ps I stopped getting ESA as my pension although not great is thought to be enough money to live on therefore not able to claim
Plus DWP along with Atos state I'm fit to work but that's another story
Maria

lulubell69

Hello again
There appears to be some confusion.
Maria, I did not work for the NHS, after a little research it appears their retirement system is different to mine. I worked for the local government.
I can only speak from my experience and there are 3 tiers, tier 1 ( which I got) is the highest. I must also stress I am very very poorly with ra, i have tried all the approved meds and IMO I was an ideal candidate for level 1, that is why I stated that is what I wanted, after much research I fitted the criteria so there was no way they were going to fob me off with anything less.
Hope this helps.


Tier 1

No reasonable prospect of being capable of gainful employment now or at any age before 65. Your pension benefits will be based on your membership so far, plus all the membership you would have built up by age 65.

Tier 2

No reasonable prospect of being capable of gainful employment now or any time in the next three years. But likely to be capable of gainful employment after that. Your pension benefits will be based on your membership so far, plus 25% of the membership you would have built up by age 65.

Tier 3

No reasonable prospect of being capable of gainful employment right now, but likely to be capable of gainful employment within three years. Your lump sum (if any) is yours to keep, but the pension will be paid for a maximum of three years, and is subject to review.

Any questions let me know. Good luck
Les

maria09

Hi Les
Very strange
Obviously local government are more caring than the NHS
Mine def has two tiers was just looking through my paperwork
I wonder why they have different criteria and a different outcome just assumed we would be all the same was yours superannuation paid through your wage?
I have OA and now have spondylo arthropathy which affects all my joints and work is impossible
I'm glad yours went smoothly
Wonder what other pension schemes do I'm now intrigued
Hope you didn't think I was getting at you as that was far from my thoughts and would not have dreamt of upsetting you :oops:
Maria

lulubell69

Not at all, I was starting to think I was going loopy ha.
After reading many posts I do seem to have been fortunate ( for the want of a better word) but like I have said, I fulfilled the criteria perfectly, occ health had 9 years of paperwork, evidence, etc, my consultant was fully supportive and my employer wanted shot of me.
If I had failed to get what I wanted I would certainly have appealed etc because the powers above make it so difficult for genuine people to claim their entitlement whether it be esa, dla, ihr. They do it to deter people claiming, thus saving money. Numerous posts on here about that, I get stressed just reading them!
Take care
Les

maria09

Hi Les
I had 25 years of ill health most work related if I had sent all that in they would be still reading through all
My first GP I had was the hospital doctor as had to be registered with them when starting nursing every time I went to see him with back pain joint pain sore throat anything he always said hazards of the job wondered if I went to see him when was pregnant he would have said the same
I don't claim ESA as my pension although not fantastic with my husbands wage means we can manage
Just had to ring tax office as was on wrong tax code as my income was halved when I retired so well under the amount to pay tax! They told me the DWP had not informed them I have had no money from them since 12/3/13 and tax office thought I was still getting £71.00 a week Grrr damn DWP and Atos who say I'm fit to work but not the job i did as it was so demanding physically as well as emotionally but that's another story
Maria

maria09

Hi Kit
Sorry for hijacking your post
It is the most difficult decision to give up work I felt like I was admitting my health had got the better of me and had won
But it's more like accepting the fact that enough is enough and concentrating on yourself and your condition
I must say although both my Arthurs are giving me lots of problems I do feel better in myself and know I can rest when bad and not have the worry of work and what they would say when I was off
I had an evil ward manager who never believed anyone with a genuine reason for sickness
So all that stress has gone I've managed to come off my happy pills and life is now manageable
I hope you have an easy transition through the ill health process and keep us up to date
Keep strong
Maria

maria09

Unsure wrote:

lululu wrote:

Sorry Kit I forgot have you considered claiming DLA you may b eligable could be very useful if only to allow you to reduce your work days more, I so wish I had been given the option of reducing my wrk days.

It would have to be PIP as no new DLA claims are being accepted, it would mean an ATOS visit.....

The nasty world of Atos :!: know it very well

maria09

Job centres don't know everything especially about ill health retirement

debram

Im joining this forum because Ive been ill from work for 16 months now, Ive previously posted on another forum and have had a few replys. Im interested in thee tiers- I didnt know 3 existed- is it in every occupation?

I work for a bank- have done so for 20 years. I had euvitis, iritis, then psoriasis, spurs,bursitis then a link was discovered in Jan 2012- Psoriatic Arthritis.

I went ill feb 2012- thought once diagnosed could cope. I had cognitive behaviour therapy for depression stress and burn out. I had bowel and urinary incontenence, IBS and diverticuli.
My private specialist ( lucky I have it with work)has been calling for anti TNF since last year but its taken me until now to be considered on the NHS with the NHS Rheumi having"failed 2 DMARDS"

My first appointment is today for anti TNF but Im told I wont start it until Sep.

In the mentime my CRP has been over 100 , my ESR at 50- I have felt like I was not being believed about how ill I was. My rheumi wrote to my GP saying she didnt know how much pain was "life stresses" PA or Fibromyalga. I didnt know I had fibromyalga? So I think she thought it was all in my head- until those high inflammatory blood tests.

Now I have trigger finger and thumb in my right hand- my right foot swells and I have nodules on my hand joints.My knees,feet hips hands, elbows all hurt. I suffer mouth ulcers from meds.

I have tried hard to get well to go back to work - Ive had bone spur op and was left with frozen shoulder- had 4 prolapses repaired- bowel,bladder Uterus and had muscle repair, I possibly have hypermobilty too.The bowel op a difference but a few weeks ago I had black poo and blood so next week Im going for yet another colonoscopy.

I even had a meeting a few weeks ago with a view to returning to work- I felt high after my bowel op and thought Id take on the world!
Then I had the bleed and trigger finger which is so painful- Im not sleeping again and whilst I get such widespread pain- I convinced myslelf I could go back to work. Im on citalopram for depression but feel like I cant cope again. I dont want to give up work- I want to be "normal" but Im 51 now and feel every time I get up Im knocked back down.

Oc health got me independantly assessed but despite that doc asking if I could retire early- oc health say i havent had PA long enough or tried "enough dangerous medication" to be considered entirely unfit. Im on 20mg methotrexate a week, 1000 sulfasalizine a day and take various other meds including tramadol for pain( I think tramadol isnt working)Theyre supposed to base their recommendations on their own experience of the case and doctors info- yet they have not called for any info from my rehumi and although my GP says they sent a letter- they say the dont have anything- I dont see how they can say Im not totally unfit.

My GP said he will support me as unfir permanent- my rehumi said he cant do that until Ive tried anti TNF.

I have to go back to work by sep or face the sack- Oc healths job is to get me back- I do not think they want to pay me a pension and will either terminate my contract or get me to resign.
Im just on ESA now and finding finances difficult.

Im at my wits end- I still have so much pain- I cant see a future, Im ok at home- I can go to bed and rest but once ive done simple things like housework- Im out of action the next day- How can I work?

Ive cried so much I want to work but think I will never cope- even part time.
Stress has been a major thing for me and Ive worked such long hours (extra unpaid) to get my job done but I know it will be 200% expected again if I go back- I cant cope with that.

Someone suggested I contact a solicitor as work keep telling me that if I go back and am ill and off owrk sick in the next 12 months I can have my contract terminated in 30 days. By the same token I will have my contract terminated if I dont return by Sep.
Theyve offered me part time but the job would be harder and I dont think I can cope with life let alone work.

Ive had telephone support from Arthritis care and thats ongoing and a great help but Id ike to know your personal experiences for early retirement and ask who can I go to for help?

Im sorry this is such a long post.

nonaproxin

Hi Debram,

Just read your post...I am currently going through a similar thing as yourself...And have had lots of help from folks on here.

I truly know how you feel. And you will have the sympathy of everyone who posts on these forums.
You say work are threatening you about your return before september, and that if you are off within 12 months of your return they will terminate your contract of employment.
The facts seem to dictate otherwise.You must (I feel) be classed as a disabled person, in which case you are covered under the equality act 2010.
This act means your employers must make adjustments and allowances for your disability.They will all try and bully you into just giving up and walking away from your job...COS THATS EASIER FOR THEM...You must seek legal advice , and get your GP to inform them that you are covered under the equality act.
You sound at a very low ebb, and I have been struggling with mental health issues caused by the same stress and pressure, so know how you feel...like life no longer has a purpose....please try and be strong , and seek help...contact your citizens advice ...they can be a real help in these circumstances...and it's at no charge....my battle has been ongoing for 9 months now , and it does grind you down..but you have rights...go out and find the help you deserve...Best of luck Eddy.

maria09

Hi Debram
I have sent you a pm as my reply is so long
Maria

debram

Thanks for the replies guys- Its a real help.

Been to my appointment for anti TNF and hope to be on it in the next 6 weeks. The rheumi nurse was great- coped well with my blubbering!
I feel so drained Ive nothing left- but Im also seeing my consultant soon so will ask again what help he can give to support me.
X Deb x

maria09

Hi Deb
I hope your appointment goes well
I'm waiting for my rheumy to return from his year abroad to tell him off as I know I would not have got my ill health pension as he said he can cure me!
Still waiting for that cure!
The rheumy nurses are brilliant so supportive
Keep using the helpline here they are so caring
My heart goes out to you
Maria

woodbon

Hi,
I'm sorry for your problems getting a an early retirement pension. It can be quite a hassle as you've found.

Are you in a union? I'm sorry, I don't think you said you were but I may have overlooked it. Anyway, if you are contact them and they should help you.
If not, make sure if you get legal advice, you find out in advance the fees they charge, most have an hourly rate and make sure know in advance as the fees can be a nasty shock! Citizens Advice have a web site you can look at called adviceguide.com, a phone line and advisors trained to help with these problems. They are worth a try, and the web site can help you quite a bit without leaving home, also they have an e-mail address which you can send in questions on and they will answer them quickly. The best thing is that its FREE!
I am retired, ill health from the county council, where I was a Care Assistant and have a very small pension and have been refused ESA as ATOS failed me this year. I could'nt face the tribunal, as I was depressed and a bit agrophobic. I have Fibro and OA in quite a few joints.
Anyway, I wish you well and hope you find some decent help.
Love Sue. xxx

debram

Thanks for replies-I will contact CAB and a solicitor as when I went yest the rheumi nurse couldnt believe I whats happening she said unfortunately people dont understand how arthritis can affect people-mine is in most joints.

Xx

debram

Ive used me free legal advice line that comes with my house insurance to discuss this with an employment law solicitor.

Hes basically said that theres nothing I can do and they are within their rights to dismiss me under capability. This is because they dont determine me totally unfit until retirement but capable of some sort of job. He said work can offer me another role.

I saw my private rheumi Weds and hes said the same that unfortunately he can only say Im unwell now as I havent tried Anti TNF and I may get a good reponse. Also Anti TNF takes around 6 months to show improvement and the nurse said if one is not suitable I can try another. So it COULD be nother year or so before I know if its a success. Lets be positive and say within 6 months , the first one I try will work though.

I also had another injection Weds as hes acknowledged my Psoriatic arthritis is bad- affecting every digit and joint.

As Im backed into a corner, I have now accepted an offer from work to return to another job part time ( 3 days a week) for 6 months and it can be reviewed after then.If Im well I can go for a job of the same grade or stay as I am and lose pay/benefits/grade.

At the moment my old job is guaranteed but I know my boss has filled my shoes so he doesnt want to make another change. I can understand that from a business point of view- although I was a "top performer" within my role- theres now doubt over my future health.
He says hes genuinely concerned about my health and doesnt think Ill cope full time in my old job- its a long drive too- so being nerarer home is a good idea.
Im getting it in writing because what if I am well (anti TNF will be a miracle cure Im sure!?) and want to go back full time? What if there isnt a job available- where does that leave me- I cant go back to my old job. However being unwell frightens me more- what happens then? Ill try not to think about that.
I feel like a problem that will be pushed onto another boss.

Anyhow I will continue to be positive- my injections kicked in and Im sleeping better. My reheumi advised me to get another one from the nurse when I have my second assessment as it will keep me going.
I also have to tell her that Ive had one because, as those of you out there know, if I dont have enough swollen joints on this second assessment, I will fail and not qualify for anti TNF.

Thanks for all your help and hugs guys- Ill have a start date soon so will need all those hugs for then! xx

maria09

Hi
I'm sorry its not the outcome you wanted
Part time work and not the responsibility that you had may help you to continue work we all know stress does affect our conditions drastically
At the end of the day your health is more important than any job and as you know when you are not there it carries on when your health is affected you can't carry on
No matter what work says you will be forgotten your role taken over and all your work life to them means nothing as well I know I could have dropped dead and NHS would not care I,was replaceable
So at the end of the day you realise you are more important than any job you have
Am I bitter yes I am 30 yrs for the NHS and who cares? Certainly not the NHS
And knowing the job you do I'm sure it's the same as to the ones higher up you are just a number not a person
I do wish you all the best and hope work wise it goes well for you
From now on put yourself first not your work
Hope your health improves
My rheumy said he could cure me! I'm still waiting
Best wishes
Maria

debram

Thanks Maria,
yes I agree -Im just a number too. My health is more important to me -thats why I requested to retire-I dont know how Im going to manage whdn I go back- Ill just put on my happy face,take thd pain meds and relax as much as I can on my days off. It is work that has exhasperated my condition-my phsychologist report said so. But I believe it actually caused it.
Ive also been bullied at work and that was when it started. The pressure was unbelievable-I should havs had the courage to do something then. They dont want to allow me Early retirement ill health as oc healths job is to get me back and it would cost them money to retire me. I cant understand how theyve let other people go on OCD alone and not me with all I have. Im not belittling OCD though as I know how that affects people and my phsychologist said I have OCD tendancies and thats bad enough.

Ill do my best which is all I can do-fingers crossed Ill cope-I coped for the four years prior to diagnosis.

Xx

maria09

Hi Deb
I know all about the bullying had 4 years of it with my boss it also coincided with me having started with spondylo arthropathy a type of inflammatory arthritis and was off sick a lot due to it.
I ended up working just 2 days a week but felt I had to work even harder than I did as she would blame my condition and get rid of me on capability
Had many many meetings with her and HR who was just as evil as her until my final year at work when I found an allies in a HR person much higher up in the system who did everything she could to help me, it got to the point when I was off sick going through all the ill health stuff with my ward manager still an evil witch that I. Told this HR lady that she would be the only one I would deal with as I was getting sick of how I was treated by my boss
I certainly think If your face fits and you are a yes person you will have no problem but if like me your not they make working life hell!
What really gets me was I worked for the NHS you would think they would be more caring and supportive but no not the cases
Yes there is a bullying and harassment policy and no it's not working a case of well there is a policy so no there is no bullying biggest load of clap trap
Surprisingly enough since I've retired I've come off the anti depressants and why oh I'm not working anymore!!
I'm sorry you are having to back to work are they going to support you when you return to work?
I had the same problem with my Rheumy he said similar to yours but as my condition involved surgery to both my feet I had the support of my Orthopaedic Consultant, GP and my works Occupational Health Doctor all on my side thank goodness as I know there was no way I could work especially as on my feet for 8 hours not getting chance for proper breaks let alone the extra ones I required according to my risk assessment!
I do feel that some consultants just seem to see the problem in their own field not the patients whole picture
Is it worth getting a second opinion? From a different Rheumy?
I'm also surprised they seem to have taken no notice of what your psychologist has said
I do wish you well on your return to work maybe the change of hours and maybe your role will make it easier
Have they given you a return date?
Maria

debram

Helo Maria,
Thanks for reply-youve been thro the mill havent you!

I had a shoulder op but that consultant said "I dont want to get involved in that-talk to your rheumatologist"
He knew how bad my shoulder was -thats why he operated. My other shoulders on the way out now. I still have pain in it though (not as bad as before though) I am holding off an op as I had 3 months of hell with worse pain and a frozen shoulder after the last op!

Ive worked for this bank 20yr and put my 6 1/2 years pension in from another bank making a total 24 pensionable yrs service with my current employerwhich means I would have a rea sonable pension but although being positive-I dont think I will reach retirement age with them-Ill be luck to last another 6 mths the way I feel at the moment!
I havent had a start date yet-Im seeing the NHS rheumi the end of the month and Ill ask her outright her opinion.How the hell people work like this I really dont know.
I dong know how Ill hold a pen with mytrigger finger