Should my 19yr olds maintenance grant count as income?

justinbarrow

Bit stuck on this...My 19 year old is studying full time on a degree course and is has got a student maintenance grant to help with his living costs, The grant is £3,225 for the year and he gets 3 payments £1,075 at the start of each term (every 16 weeks) it works out weekly at around £67.00 We are on a low income at the moment and get help with council tax and rent, and also get income support.

Our son isn't claiming any benefits in his own name and just gets this maintenance grant from 16th October but now the local council have asked for proof of his grant along with confirmation from the university of his full time status but when I called them today as I had not got any letter back they told me this grant would be considered as an household income! and as such we would have what support for rent and council tax we have reduced..

I have been told by the student finance people that these grants are not taxable and shouldn't be counted as income as our child is living at the same address as us while studying but they also said it would be best to contact the council about this. On speaking to citizens advise on the phone they said it doesn't sound right as the grant is to help pay for food and course items along with travel but to wait until I get something in writing first and then make contact with them again as they also said that the person on the phone may not have known the full rules on this. This grant is to help support him while he is studying with course books, prescription/dental charges etc.

Both myself or the Mrs don't get any benefits or tax credits for him now but just thought I would ask here to see if anyone has been or known of someone in a similar situation. The funny thing is the student finance people told me that these maintenance grants come from the government but yet local departments want a piece of it, talk about giving something with one hand and taking with the other. He cant even get help with his prescription costs as he needs regular asthma inhalers it just doesn't make sense.

The DWP did ask about what he is doing for money when he was removed and I told them about the maintenance grant and asked if that will go against the money we get and they said it wouldn't but they just needed to know saying he would not be eligible for benefits while in receipt of the maintenance grant which is fair enough but then for the local council to want a slice seems unfair.

Thanks all.

justinbarrow

All this because we get help towards rent and council tax and they want us to take money from our childs grant to pay towards the rent and council tax. He is already giving us money for his food and board.

He is also claiming nothing in his name and doesn't even get help with prescription costs and dental treatment.

The council also told me that if we was doing nothing and claiming Jobseekers then nothing would change...Maybe he should of gone on jobseekers then instead of getting good grades for the 2 years he has been at college to enable him gain to get a place to do his degree.

This government are moaning that the UK has a shortage of skills but yet they make it so hard for young people to get the qualifications due to all this income/grant stuff.

Sorry for moaning on but it really annoys me - I haven't been able to sleep last night thinking about all this.

Bloody annoys me :roll: sorry!

frogmorton

Justin

Gosh! I hope it isn't taken into account, but if it is it's such a very small amount of money it can't have too much impact surely?? I mean - how much are people allowed to have in their savings??? That's more than his grant.

In your shoes I would urgently be talking to CAB. they are the experts in doing calculations.

I have the first one going to university this year and no nothing yet about what she will get and she won't be living at home either.

Good luck with this

Love

Toni xxx

stickywicket

I've puzzled over this one as I can see your concern. I'm not up with student grants these days but I'd guess the problem lies in the fact that:

1. You get help to pay your rent and
2. Your son's maintenance grant is supposed to cover, among other things, his rent. So
3. Presumably, if he's living with you rather than in student accommodation or a private rental, some of his grant should be going towards paying the household rent.

Please don't take this as fact. It's just as I would understand it. In your place I'd keep nagging for those confirmation papers and stick with C.A.B as they sound as if they know what's what. Meanwhile do try not to worry as that will only make your arthritis worse.

maria09

I know what you mean
I've worked for 30 years and just because my husband and I earn just above the threshold and I mean just above we get nothing except child benefit for son as he's 17 we did get family tax credit for abt a year till they yet again raised the threshold! So had that taken off us
My daughter is at uni and gets the lowest amount of student loan there is!
Now I'm not working and getting almost half I was when working we she can claim for nothing as technically we are supporting her she rents a house close to uni
She also has a chronic long term condition for which she can not claim for due to our income and won't get any help with her loan or get an increase as my income was reduced by 40% and not 50%
So we get shafted from all angles which really annoys me as I'd be better off as a single person bringing up 2 kids
Won't go down that route as I get so mad and may say something to get me banned
So you are not alone in your struggles as the saying goes united we stand
Best wishes
Maria

maria09

PS
My daughters student loan does not cover her accommodation
Her £9,000 tuition fees are not included so after 3 years she will be in debt £27,000 and even more if she takes her studying further
Oh and son is planning on going to uni next year
Oh happy days
Oh she doesn't get help for her prescriptions either and has to 6 types of medication for her condition so we get her a pre payed prescription for her as it works out cheaper
Luckily she has a summer job that helps her keep her head above water!
Maria

stickywicket

I don't know if this will help or not but clearly a student loan is different from a maintenance grant.
http://www.studento.com/student-finance/maintenance-grants.html

tkachev

The council tend to get things wrong and its one of those grey areas where you get conflicting advice. post on MSE benefits secton as you will eventually get the correct answer. Its all to do with whether he is classed as a dependent or non-dependent.

I'll take a look on MSE for you.

Elizabeth

tkachev

You do need the letter from the Uni/ college as evidence and without it the council will count it as income, as if he is working and therefore needs to contribute to council tax and rent.

Why hasn't the Uni/college provided this?
You cannot rely on the council to sort it out as they need the proof of the source of the income otherwise they will make their own assumptions.

Also if you get issued with a new council tax bill don't ignore it as you will need to make payments and claim back later when they are satisfied that the money is not income.

Only going on what I have read Justin. good luck

Elizabeth.

justinbarrow

Thanks everyone, What is confusing is that when I "talked" to the council revenues department they said it would be disallowed on 2 occasions then yesterday I get told that it will be classed as income.

DWP are not interested in it but yet the council revenues department is.

I was told by CAB that it seems to be wrong as the advice they give is certified as government accurate but will have to wait for an "assessor/decision maker" to officially write and say what is what.

The funny thing was when I was on the phone to them about this, towards the end of the call I asked if they had all the proof of income etc. on their screens and if they could actually see it...to which they said "oh hang on...I will have a look now"

So they made an over the phone assumption without even looking at all the paperwork/evidence they had asked for saying its waiting for an assessor to look at it.

justinbarrow

tkachev wrote:

You do need the letter from the Uni/ college as evidence and without it the council will count it as income, as if he is working and therefore needs to contribute to council tax and rent.

Elizabeth.

Thanks Elizabeth, We got a letter from the Uni/College to state it is a full time course and that he is enrolled onto that course. I also supplied the full breakdown of his Student Maintenance Grant along with my wifes tax credit award for our younger child and a full recent breakdown of income support.

They say he is classed as a dependant as child tax is no longer being paid.

They also said they count the maintenance grant as income from 1st September! :shock: Why as he does not get it until the 16th September! and all money for him stopped on 31st August so that's over 2 weeks that he or us haven't had any support financially so why count it from 1st September.

They seem to think he will have to pay £19.22 per week towards rent and £8.12 towards council tax per week (that's £27.34 each week) from around £67 a week plus his prescription costs of 2 items per month for inhalers, course books, food and other expenses such as travel costs.

Just wish Monday would hurry up as I cant get over they take this grant into account from 1st September when he wont get it until the 16th Sept.

Thanks again for the help everyone - Hope you are well as can be

tkachev

I think they count it from 1st September because it covers the entire student year and he gets a lump sum. He would get child Ben/tax credits ntil 31st August and then transfers over from 1st Sept.I'm sure i saw that the money is expected to last until the last week of June but best check that out.

So they are reducing your HB from September 1st and charging extra on your council tax bill as your child is now classed as a dependent and you will be expected to get a contribution from your Son's maintenance grant to cover the shortfall?

Can he apply for a student loan as well as a maintenence grant? A loan has to be paid back but in the future when the student is earning more money (over £21000) but it would help him out in the meantime?

I'm not sure if living at home prevents this and if a loan would also count as income.

Elizabeth

tkachev

Sorry Justin I expect your son has got a student loan as well and has used it to pay for his tuition fees. Looking through the info I have noticed that he has to repay the maintenance grant. is this correct?

One thing that is confusing me is students should be exempt from the Council tax. Even if they live in a property with non-students its only non-students who are responsible for the bill. I'd have thought he had an exemption and your bill would remain the same as before.



Elizabeth

tkachev

You don't have to pay back the maintenance grant but you do have to pay back any maintenance loan which is different (confusing) and there is also the tuition fees loan for the course. Any maintenance grant he gets will effect the amount of the maintenance loan he can borrow. Its for help with your living costs.

Will he be getting a ML?

I'm also seeing that a lot of students qualify for bursaries.Check with his uni to see if he can also get some extra help.

I do have a daughter at uni but she is self funding her fees(well I'm paying but she says she'll pay me back one day). I think she got a maintenene loan or grant last year, which came as a surprise as first she knew about it was when it appeared in her bank account.

There are also interest free student bank accounts although eventually these have to be paid back!

elizabeth

maria09

Hi
The student loan does not cover tuition fees it only just manages to cover my daughters accommodation and a few books
We as most parents have to help out where we can
So their debt is huge by the time they qualify
They don't start paying it back until they are earning 25 grand per year so and after 30 years I think they stop paying the loan well that's how my daughter explained it to me
So 27 grands worth of debt before they even get a full time job
That's why not as many are going to uni
My son goes to college and gets nothing whilst some students get up to £ 30.00 I think that's for a week but not sure and worked out on parents earning
So we are very careful with our money we don't smoke hardly drink never go to the pub and haven't had a holiday in about 6 years
Just so we can help our two get the things they need
Oh and Atos say I'm fit to work so my ESA I had for 6 months has stopped!
My giddy aunt what an essay was only going to write a couple of sentences
Thank you for reading my rant
Maria

tkachev

Your son is getting the maintenance grant (which he does not need to pay back) and presumably the loan for tuition fees but you haven't mentioned if he is getting the maintenance loan which needs to be paid back after Uni.This would also be for his for living costs and hopefully would not count as income for the purpose of HB and CT.

I do remember on MSE someone having to pay council tax after leaving uni and their loan repayments were not being discounted. So she was earning c.£100, paying £20 for loan repayments but the council based her council tax on the full income of £100 and did not take the loan repayments into account. But thats something to worry about in the future!

repayments start at £21000 and gets written off after a certain amount of years (it could be 300). Its a graduate tax really.

Elizabeth

tkachev

http://www.ljmu.ac.uk/feesandfunding/117786.htm

there are a few things of interest on this page notably that if you are working you are still exempt from council tax charges because you are a student. so earnings are income but are disregarded in this case.

and scroll down to the My parents have asked me to get a certificate.....

Elizabeth

justinbarrow

Thanks for the replies everyone, He is not getting a maintenance loan and is getting the grant.

I am waiting for citizens advice to phone me back as I type this as today they do over the phone advise sessions.

Will keep you posted on what they say and I totally agree that students should be exempt from council tax if the have no income and the household income is very low.

justinbarrow

Well this is interesting even Citizens advice seem to think it will be classed as income but also said they are not 100% sure so I decided to call the council tax people and asked to speak to a supervisor and luckily one picked up the phone after explaining it all they seem to think it should not be counted as an income if its a maintenance grant however if it was a maintenance "loan" then it might be he also said council tax will not apply to a full time students as long as they don't have part time income but is going to check with his boss to make sure and call me back later today - They also said council tax would not apply to full time students.

They then said its because of so many government changes taking place that it can cause wrong information to be given - Not good really. Will keep you posted and let you know what goes on...

To be continued

tkachev

If i've learnt anything its that students are exempt from council tax but that the maintenance grant counts as income. But that might be if a student is claiming benefits in their own right(such as a mature student or a parent).

Why isn't he getting a maintenance loan? he would not need to pay this back until earning over £21000 and it would help pay for transport and books. Beause he gets a grant any loan will be reduced(by about 50%) but it will lessen the pressure on him (unless it counts as income)!

Have you thought about claiming for a bursary direct from his university? This is what my daughter gets every December and many of her other friends also receive help through bursaries. She does not need to pay it back.

I did read that the loan covers the period 1st September-end of June.So you need to apply for different HB and Council tax support (its new name from April 2013) for July and August apparently. Good news is he won't have those additional travelling costs during those periods so there will be a saving there. If he gets a job during July August I don't think it counts as earnings (but double check this).

I do hope you don't have to take a contribution from his grant for council tax and whatever the outcome get it in writing!

Good luck and hope you have good news to report soon.

Elizabeth

justinbarrow

Thanks Elizabeth - I got a call back from a assessor at the local council revenue department to say they have double checked the information and its like what you said in your above post a Maintenance grant is not classed as household income.

They told me if he was claiming anything in his name then it would be considered as an income and this would reduce any support for housing rent and council tax. As he is not allowed to claim any benefits in his name because he gets a maintenance grant it is disregarded.

Cant believe it took someone high up to work it all out but least its sorted now, they have also put what was said on file so whoever gets the file next can see what was said and who by. They said I might get something in the post such as a decision notice but I might not, I will push for this though as I would like it on paper.

The also asked me the name of the advisor I spoke to again which I told them.

Got their in the end - thanks for all the advice and help, Its like a mine field out there with all these rules etc..

tkachev

I'm really pleased it got sorted in your favour Justin. Hopefully when a bill arrives it will be correct! There was absolutely no info anywhere so its obviously a new thing. I hope others in a similar position do not miss out.

Hope uni goes well for your Son.

Elizabeth

frogmorton

Well-done Justin

I am over the moon for you and your son - I bet he was worried too

love

Toni xx

tkachev

Justin I just want to advise you to keep an eye on your Housing benefit,make sure its paid as usual and on the usual date. Its just 'possible' that somebody at the council,when you first made inquiries, has told somebody in the housing department that your HB payments needed updating due to a higher income coming in, in which case your current claim would have been stopped and the first thing you'd know about it would be when your HB payment didn't go into your bank. i don't want to worry you but I've heard of many similar cases.

elizabeth

justinbarrow

Thanks Elizabeth,

I did phone them again to ask for a new letter of entitlement to be sent which they said they will do. They could also see notes from the supervisor stating that the claim should carry on and why and who they consulted.

They told me nothing has changed and that the claim is still being paid, But said the file still needed to be dealt with by a decision maker and stated that the info from the supervisor I had spoke to would be enough as they also consulted with their main boss also before calling me back.

I know what you mean though about it being better to get it in writing - Its been 3 weeks since they had everything sent to them and still no letter.

They told me if nothing is to change on the claim then I wouldnt get a letter and that I would only get one if something had changed or the needed more info, Nevertheless I still asked for one once its been signed off.

3 weeks seems a long time though - Thanks everyone again for the help on this one

frogmorton

Justin

how nice of you to thank everyone for helping you (Elizabeth mostly), not everyone takes the time to say that

I hope you do hear soon and am just so relieved all is well for you all

Love

Toni xxx