Bolstering Immune System

Toots

I've seen a few posts recently that have got me to wondering if I need to be finding out more about how the immune system works.

On a basic level, I presumed the meds, as immune-suppression drugs, reduced the activity of your immune system so that it no longer attacked your own body.

However I keep seeing mention of taking a variety of things to bolster the immune system. To me this is a bit of a paradox lol, because surely I don't want my immune system to be working better or it'll start attacking the wrong things again ....

Have I just completely misunderstood the way things work?

Kittkat

I don't understand it either toots but im on methotrexate and I find that vitamin c/garlic help get rid of colds so I have just taken them anyway.

phoenixoxo

Hi Toots,

Yes, this seems a bit strange, doesn't it? :?

I have to be honest, I don't really understand the immune system. Maybe it's capable of favourable reaction even while it's being suppressed? That would explain Kittkat's success with the Vit. C and garlic combo

Best wishes,
Phee

Toots

Lol yes, I am somewhat puzzled! Think maybe it's time to get googling again!

dreamdaisy

I cannot see the point in boosting something which attacks you (mine has been attacking me since birth, oh lucky me ). The other trouble is that we are individuals, so what works for one won't help another. My Ma was a great fan of zinc and garlic when she caught a cold but I prefer to stop the immuno-suppressants so my system could fire up. Ma could never understand why I was happy for a cold to run riot when I could have been suppressing it but she wasn't a 'proper' arthritic. Her loss, no? We have to find what works for us, end of. DD

Toots

Yes you're right DD, what works for one and all that. It was our conversation that prompted me to think about this more. I've always been pretty healthy in general and now I wonder if that's just because it's the way I am, or if its because my immune system is super-duper :roll:

salamander

I don't boost my immune system for the same reasons as DD. Also, one needs to be careful about taking any kind of supplements if you are on certain drugs.

Boomer13

The immune system in us with autoimmune conditions does not need to be made stronger; it is already overactive, however, because it is overactive we do need to support it with good nutrition as our bodies are in overdrive producing things like the various proinflammatory chemicals, and then trying to heal damage from these. I think this is where the confusion tends to come in; it's support from being overactive that's needed, not more stimulation.

This is how I understand it anyway.

We need to be careful, and especially people with Lupus, about taking things like echinacea as they stimulate the immune system and can cause flares.

DebbieT

On Starbursts thread I asked was there anything they could give her to bolster her immune system, by that, *this is in my head so please bare that in mind * I meant drugs like methotrexate suppress ure immune system across the board, so to speak, wen we actually only need specific parts controlled, turned off or wot ever soooo .... Can't our immune systems be built up in the 'right' ways so as to lessen the infection risk etc whilst it's suppressed in the areas that's needed so it helps slow the disease.

That's wot I was getting at
xxx

salamander

Not sure it works like that Debbie.

On echinacea, it shouldn't be taken if you are on methotrexate as it can push your liver results up. It takes a heavy toll on the liver by all accounts.

dreamdaisy

Our immune systems are not that selective, Debbie, we cannot boost one bit but not others. The same applies to any medication, all that dross about headache tablets targetting just the headache is nonsense. DD

Toots

Interesting replies, looks like it's a complicated one.

I think the problem lies in the fact that the meds are blanket immune-suppressing, rather than specifically targeting the offending cells. If I understand correctly from my googling however, anti-tnfs target B cells only so surely that means that the rest of the immune system is not compromised? I have to say, it's fascinating stuff and reading about immune systems is a reminder of how fantastic the human body is. Well, when it's working correctly!

I read information that claims the thymus is at fault - it's essentially a school where T cells go to learn the difference between the body's own cells and invading pathogens. Looks like they didn't pay enough attention in class!!!!!

salamander

I believe some drugs target B cells and some T cells. However, as far as I am aware, the cells are not specific to inflammatory arthritis so you knock down the whole immune system when you take the drugs. That is why you get infections as well as getting an anti inflammatory response. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Deleted User]

I was wondering about this lately. It would be kind of perverse to NOT bolstering your immune-system because of the reverse effect on our anti-immune disease. I mean, I eat extrem well,(I think). I grow my own organic stuff or buy it from my (organic) collegues. I eat huge amounts of fruit, since that is what I have most around and I love my seeds. It would be somehow diabolic if my habits would cause further damage to my bones and joints, would it not? Alcohol and tobacco would slow down your immune- system. It would be kind of amusing if we could slow down our problems with booze and ****, wouldn't it? Confusing.... I just have this picture of all of us in a special arthritis clinic in mind: totally drunk and in a massive cloud of blue smoke. Coughing and blurping, but happily pain-free.

stickywicket

caliban wrote:

Alcohol and tobacco would slow down your immune- system. It would be kind of amusing if we could slow down our problems with booze and ****, wouldn't it? Confusing.... I just have this picture of all of us in a special arthritis clinic in mind: totally drunk and in a massive cloud of blue smoke. Coughing and blurping, but happily pain-free.

Now that's my kind of logic, caliban. I've sometimes mused that, if weight-bearing exercise is good for osteoporosis, would we all be better off stuffing ourselves with cream cakes, chocolate etc in order to have more weight to bear?

Toots. This is a fascinating one but I've always assumed that, if my auto-immune system is over-active, the less I boost it the better. I just try to eat healthily and exercise as much as possible.

Toots

salamander wrote:

I believe some drugs target B cells and some T cells. However, as far as I am aware, the cells are not specific to inflammatory arthritis so you knock down the whole immune system when you take the drugs. That is why you get infections as well as getting an anti inflammatory response. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I can tell you are correct, but I believe that naughty T cells are the ones that dictate an immune response against ones own body. They are incorrectly telling their other cell mates (haha) that's its ok to attack. That go-ahead from the T cells does not generate the actual inflammation, but starts the process. Or something.

Toots

caliban wrote:

I just have this picture of all of us in a special arthritis clinic in mind: totally drunk and in a massive cloud of blue smoke. Coughing and blurping, but happily pain-free.

Love it!!!

phoenixoxo

Hi Toots,

Thanks for starting this thread – I’m finding it very interesting, especially this bit:

Toots wrote:

salamander wrote:

I believe some drugs target B cells and some T cells. However, as far as I am aware, the cells are not specific to inflammatory arthritis so you knock down the whole immune system when you take the drugs. That is why you get infections as well as getting an anti inflammatory response. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I can tell you are correct, but I believe that naughty T cells are the ones that dictate an immune response against ones own body. They are incorrectly telling their other cell mates (haha) that's its ok to attack. That go-ahead from the T cells does not generate the actual inflammation, but starts the process. Or something.

I might try to read up on a few things when I have time, as I like to understand how my body works, even though it's working against me! In the meantime, I suppose it's worth keeping up the diet and exercise regime. Fish 'n' chips and telly tonight, as it happens, but hardcore physio and broccoli tomorrow

Best wishes,
Phee

[Deleted User]

If it is the T-cells that cause all this trouble, why are they still allowed? They should have been banned long since. Gouvernment does nothing. As usual.

stickywicket

I think they can't ban 'em on Health & Safety grounds. Some people, known as 'The Fit Ones' have a use for them.

[Deleted User]

Who cares for "the fit ones"? :x Down with the T-cells!

mike26

hi all
very interesting subject, some of you may know when i said think i
might be going down the TNFs route.
well yes i am, my roomy has uped my prednisolone and im wondering
why ? decresing every 2 weeks i start in about 6 weeks time any help
will be welcome mike26 :roll: :roll:

stickywicket

Sorry, Mike, my brain's not in gear today :roll:

Are you saying you've been told you're definitely going on to anti-tnfs and that the rheumatologist has upped your pred in preparation for this?

Also that you start the anti-tnf in 6 weeks time and will then gradually decrease the pred?

I don't think I can be much help as I've never done anti-tnfs but I think you'll get more replies if you put up a separate thread.

mike26

hi all
yes stickywicket starting TNFs in about 6 wks time
my roomy has uped my prednisolone quiet high decresing every
2 weeks till i take the TNFs drug.
wondering why ? is it to strengthen my body in preperation for the
TNFs. :!: mike26

Kittkat

caliban wrote:

If it is the T-cells that cause all this trouble, why are they still allowed? They should have been banned long since. Gouvernment does nothing. As usual.

salamander

mike26 wrote:

hi all
yes stickywicket starting TNFs in about 6 wks time
my roomy has uped my prednisolone quiet high decresing every
2 weeks till i take the TNFs drug.
wondering why ? is it to strengthen my body in preperation for the
TNFs. :!: mike26

Probably to give you a bit of pain relief Mike.