I'm feeling very sad

numptynora

Oh dear, can someone please tel me what's happened, as with most things I'm late to the party!! :roll:

stickywicket

I really hope that no-one will stop posting on here. We all have different voices. That is a strength. We might not agree with each other all the time – indeed, it would be odd if we did – but we can disagree amicably and respectfully and we usually do. I think that is why many of us were stunned by the appearance of the 'non-swearing' thread and by what followed.

Caliban has, I believe, left the forum as he said he would. If ever anyone deserved a little warmth and understanding surely it is a man whose first language is not English, who is struggling greatly financially to support himself and lives alone with his cat, his arthritis which necessitates crutches, and the inability to take much medication owing to his two strokes. All he asked of us was a little laughter and companionship.

However, I want to stress again the value of the moderators. Without them giving their time freely these forums wouldn't exist. Many, if not most of them have arthritis so they, too, will have their bad and painful days. What upset me, and continues to upset me, is the arrogance and contempt with which our perfectly legitimate posts were suddenly wiped out with no explanation deemed necessary either then or now.

(Mr Optimist (and Numptynora), that last sentence is what this thread is about. I think you have misunderstood it, Mr Optimist. It's not about swearing or not-swearing. We had that discussion yesterday and our posts were all summarily deleted.)

kentishlady

I think it is a great shame this has happened but perhaps, as Barbara says, it maybe a 'fuss about nothing' or 'making a mountain out of a molehill' to a certain extent. I do, however, agree that in this instance the action of the Moderators was a little 'heavy-handed' to say the least which is extremely unfortunate.

We all get great support from each other when needed on the forum, and maybe we will be the losers if we stop using it.

Perhaps an apology would help to ease the situation.

Beryl

salamander

Hi Barbara, I'll pm you.

I thought Caliban was ok and have had perfectly reasonable conversations with him. To remove posts by ALL members on a thread is a step too far. As others have said, the forum is dull, polite and pretty sluggish these days. That's what happens when you squash any dissent or disagreement.

mig

We are already losers by what has been said and what has happened and to lose someone like Caliban who so obviously needed our support and understanding is a tragedy for him and for us,no member should be made to feel that they should leave the forum . Mig

Boomer13

As I am not from the UK, I hesitated to post an opinion, but I am sorry that people seem to be very affected by this. I still think of myself as new to the forum, so am perhaps unaware of the history members have alluded to.

I have really benefited from being able to talk to others afflicted with chronic pain conditions, and have appreciated all the help and advice I have received. I think it is very valuable to have a safe place, even with the occasional appropriate expletive, to describe our situations that already involve social isolation, excessive judgement and perhaps criticism from others. I would be very sorry if people retreat away from posting on the forum, it's been very beneficial for myself and many others I suspect. I have always looked forward to eventually being able to contribute more than rants and moaning, and I certainly have appreciated the good humor and creativity that others with unbelievably nasty problems add to the forum. It's how we can all pull each other through the nasty times our diseases put us through.

In my very large country no one posts on our forum except a few, and it's very difficult to even stir up a conversation about arthritis and pain let alone have a fun discussion about anything at all! I don't know why it has flopped so badly here. What you have in your UK AC forum is a very lovely place for smart discussion about very difficult, real problems which I hope won't be excessively censored, or lose members so you end up with the non-forum we have here where no one wants to participate.

[Deleted User]

Dear forum members,

Firstly I need to say I am the Mod who moved all posts off the thread re swearing and I also made it a locked topic.

I had intended to add a post to that thread to say that I had quarantined the posts and that the topic was locked. Sadly I didn't, many excuses come to mind but in the end it still wasn't done and I apologise absolutely for that.

I moved the posts in their entirety? Because there were a number of posts that were trying to sow dissention between yourselves and the Mods, removing only those posts would have left a strange mix of comments that would make little sense.

There is no 'us' and 'you', we have arthritis, we struggle, we have off days, we feel enriched by coming to this site and we get help and support from your posts. If anyone wants to help please do, we badly need more Mods.

We get complaints about impartiality a lot, you let x say that yet you stopped me saying it. We are trying to give you what you want. If left up to each Mod to decide those complaints would continue. So the only other option we came up with was a ban on all swearing, we could all do that and unless a comment was missed it would apply equally to all.

Thank you for inviting a comment, thanks for reading it if you made it to the end, and if you have any better ideas, share them

Take care
Mod
YEH

barbara12

Thankyou..like you say there is no you and us..we are all suffering from arthritis one way or another ..you do a good job watching out for post that shouldn't be there.
Like I sad earlier a mountain out of a molehill..for goodness sake lets get on with supporting one another...

Boomer13

Thank you, and please, please welcome back those who were so offended that they decided to go elsewhere, or nowhere.

kentishlady

Thank you for explaining your position. Hopefully, that may help to ease the very unfortunate situation which has arisen.

I agree with Boomer wholeheartedly.

Beryl

MrOptimist

No StickyWicket, I hadn't misunderstood your post. I simply wanted to add my support to the Moderators' decision, because I thought it was the right one. I also realised that their post wasn't up for discussion - a decision had been made - whether one agreed or not.

marrianne

Hello Everyone ,Like Numpty Nora ,No idea what has happened ,but it all sounds very sad ,Please come back Caliban I loved your posts even though half the time you had me scratching my head :? infact anyone who has left or decided to post less DD :? I think maybe those who are useing P/M could pass on messages please give it another whirl because it just wont be the same without you feeling very sad this evening .Marrianne x
,

thistlegirl

Thank you Moderator for your explanation and I agree that we are all human and the explanation post that was missed would have clarified the removal of the posts.

I would like to question the Forum decision to ban swearing reference with *** or ### if a "child" of 14 is on this forum then as a high school teacher I can tell you that they know and use more swear words than some of us. I would like to point out that in all my time of being on the LWA forum I have never knowingly talked to a "child"

Surely we should be working to please the majority of the members and not on the off chance that a "child" sees something on the internet that they shouldn't - a written swear word in the great scheme of things is not what parents are worried about there children seeing online and I am also a great believer of parents being responsible for their children's activities online and I would expect a parent to look into this forum and it's content before allowing the child to use it and speak freely on it though I would also expect them to use the young persons forum as the name suggests.

Maybe an explanation post explaining the Adult and young person site would clarify this to the parents and children. As to adults who do not appreciate swearing I hope the **## would be a good solution?

If I disagree with the tone of a thread I do not participate in it or go back to it, I also hope I would report anything to the Moderators if I ever felt the need. So far what I have seen is fellow forum members self moderating and looking after their friends when needed.

Those are my suggestions if they are of any use to you. I do appreciate the job that is done by the Moderators and understand the forum would not be able to run without their unpaid work.

One last thing this forum isn't Beige!!!! It is a rainbow of colours and it works brilliantly - was going to make all those words different colours but just realised how much work that was so use your imagination instead.

Here's to a calmer night

Thank you

A Happier Jenny

kentishlady

I agree with so much Jenny has said. In fact I have noticed that the young persons' forum is very rarely used which would seem to indicate that the 'very young' with arthritis are not very 'into' using a forum of their own. It is probably not unreasonable to assume that if the very young are not particularly interested in using their own forum they are rather unlikely to use this one?

As Jenny has already said, many children hear and use swearing on a regular basis these days so they are unlikely to be affected by the occasional swear word which usually takes the form of asterisks and leaves the reader to decipher the 'missing word', IF they should, in the unlikely event, be on this forum.

Beryl

Mat48

Oh dear -I've missed all of this because of having my sister to stay for a week. I was just getting my nerve back to join in more having been harassed/ bullied into leaving another forum - complete absence of moderation being the issue in my case - so I'm sad to read this thread now.

My own personal view is that there's nothing wrong with a few choice expletives when talking about our arthritic conditions :roll: . However as the use of swear words is generally discouraged on public forums, I don't indulge on here - but would be very hard to offend me on this front nonetheless.

Surely the time for mods to step in and occasionally lock or remove threads should be when there's meanness about? - and that can come couched in many very presentable forms as I have recently learned to my cost. In other words - it's what is being said rather than the manner of expression that should be scrutinised. Moderators are doing such an important job but there's an important distinction to be made between intervening and gagging i feel?

salamander

I think bullying is one thing, and I think the mods have been slack with that in the past but if one can never criticise another member for their posts, all you have left is an anodyne forum that offers platitudes to members.

I believe a forum can be a place of debate, as well as support. However, when you have debate you always have differing views. There are lots of difficulties with treatment and differences too. Having a robust discussion can be helpful for people making tough lifestyle choices and coming to terms with a very difficult decision. I don't believe sending hugs and kisses to people is the only way to support.

In addition, if you have been posting on here for any length of time, there is only so much of that kind of support you can give to other people. I come on here to get support but also to offload when things go wrong and get the benefit of other's experience. I don't really mind if that is with humour, with frankness or with kindness, but that doesn't have to be anodyne. I like to be challenged and to think about the decisions I make. I find it helpful. But I don't really get that here. Which is a shame.

marrianne

Dont care just get back all the great fun sparky people back on A/C ......STOP BEING CROSS please stop analising this and that.just come back all the guys that went ...............one person springs to mind think she is on holiday in France at the moment ,Well she has put so much into this over the years she would be so sad ....and sticky and numpty and DD AND DEFINATELY DD AND all kind people you know how you are 2 many to say ....................Marrianne x

jillyb1

As I said on the original deleted thread ; I do detest swearing and bad language of any kind ; but that doesn't mean I want to gag those who use it any more than I expected to be deleted for taking a contrary view point . The wonderful thing about a forum is that people of differing opinions can discuss and debate . Please can we get back to that again ? It's unsettling to feel that one must constantly rewrite a comment before submitting it .
Jillyb

elainebadknee

Hi

Well I feel bad now because think it was something I commented on that Caliban used the word and I pm'd him asking what it was. At no time was I offended or did he seem to be offended either, it was light hearted fun. I think the moderators have been on some sort of training course and are working to the letter/rule as all this "your post must be approved by a moderator" is just plain silly. We comment on those we empathise with, the ones we don't empathise or agree with we simply don't add to their posts. Also I do think is someone shows empathy their age is nothing to do with that statement of emotion or lack of it, it is simply how people are and age will never change them.
Awful Caliban has left, I sincerely hope he is reading all our comments as you don't have to be a member to do so, only to comment...
The world has gone PC mad and this too in a week where an interviewer I attended looked at my passpport photo and said his was like, well, I can't say, not allowed but 9/11, 7/7 gives you a clue...I couldn't believe this from an NHS management personnel!!??

Elainexx

dreamdaisy

The thread that was deleted and locked was the one where the majority of comments were made. It is still around on the other forums but as this is probably the most-used one it's hardly surprising that most comments were made on this one. Why not lock all of them?

The comment about not wanting to leave some posts so that the thread would be left with a 'strange mix of comments that would make little sense' is an extraordinary statement: one only has to read the Acceptance thread to see that exactly that has been done. That used to be a useful thread, but now? It starts with a reply.

I feel that the forum would benefit from full-time staff to run and monitor it. The current system appears to be somehwat haphazard with much of the hard work falling on those who volunteer to be that un-enviable thing, a Moderator. If some mods are also forum members then it must be more difficult to deal with issues, wearing two or more hats is never easy. None of us know what goes on behind the scenes which is probably just as well - I suspect our feelings of anger and injustice would be even more raised.

There will always be those who like to stir things up and there will always be those who like a quiet life. There will always be those who take and rarely give, and those who only give, because that is how humans are. There will always be those who love to boss and throw what little weight they have around thinking it's showing authority and there will always be those who love to sit in an armchair and criticise. One never notices good managers. We come across this in our ordinary, every-day lives and on here will be no different. If a bland forum is what is wanted then fine, let's have it. It will be very peaceful, Fifty Shades of Beige, yes?

I'm not leaving, Marianne, but I won't be about as much. I have a busy time ahead of me over the next couple of months and I am going to need all of my limited resources to cope with the upheavals. This year has been a punishing one for me on a number of levels and it ain't done with me yet. (Whoever is sticking pins in their DD poppett please give me a break, you can resume come February, OK?) DD

ichabod6

Hello dd,

Just to remind you that AC is a charity and has better matters to
spend its limited funds on than providing a service for those who
occasionally take the hump. There are few members of staff who
work full time for the organisation.
I subscribe to the saying that if you cant stand the heat dont mess
about in the kitchen.
I for one am glad you are not leaving the website.

ELAINE55555

I missed what this was all about, but reading between the lines, in the grand scheme of things, what is a few sweary words? We are all consenting adults and as you say ichabod, if you can't stand the heat then get out. As for the youngsters, I bet they could teach us a few new sweary words!

salamander

I expect they know words I've never even heard of Elaine!

I think we all know AC is a charity and the forum is moderated by volunteers. However, that is not the point of this debate and, in any case, charities have responsibilities to ensure their practice is fair and transparent, I do believe. I think that's all people are asking for here, a clear understanding of why decisions are made and assurance they are being made for the right reasons. I don't have anything against any of the mods but it is difficult to understand some of their decision sometimes.

I've been posting on here, on and off, for the past 4 years and have gained a lot of support from other members. I don't use the rest of the site and haven't found other support they offer useful to me so it's not as if the forum doesn't fulfil some role for me. However, it's often Fifty Shades of Beige, as DD said, and I don't do beige.

stickywicket

My thanks to Moderator YEH for taking the time and effort to post an explanation of what happened. I still find the deletion of an entire thread heavy-handed in the extreme but, if the posts have simply been quarantined, I presume we will have them back at some point.

I hope so because I read all the posts until I left home at 2pm on Wednesday (The thread was locked and posts removed at 2.06pm according to the forum) and I saw none, let alone 'several', that I feel could reasonably be construed as 'trying to sow dissention between yourselves and the Mods'.

On the contrary, I think any wedge between moderators and ordinary forum users was caused not by any of the users' posts but by the original one in which moderators seemed anxious to 'correct' something which, for the vast majority of users, was not a problem. We subsequently protested about that action. If honest protest is to be construed as 'sowing dissention' then we clearly have no voice at all. If that is the case, there is, of necessity, an "'us' (who have a voice) and 'you' (who don't)". It cannot be avoided.

I think it's clear, from this thread and the removed posts, that the overwhelming majority of us have no problem with the minimal level of swearing, with or wihout asterisks, that we get on here. The rule about no personal abuse adequately dealt with any swearing AT people (which I can't recall ever happening. )

You write that 'We are trying to give you what you want'. I think most of us want the former status quo back, please, and some reassurance that, in future, our perfectly legitimate posts will not be removed.

I apologise if this post sounds in any way unkind or uncaring. I care very much about the forum but I am out on my feet today and the grey matter is struggling.

dachshund

I saw calaban here this morning now nowhere to be seen what has happened to his post. very interesting.
joan xx