Bemused by the Scottish referendum.

dreamdaisy
dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,557
edited 19. Sep 2014, 11:03 in Community Chit-chat archive
I think I am right in saying that Scots who are domiciled south of the border are not eligible to vote but foreign nationals (such as Poles, Germans, French etc.) who are domiciled in Scotland are.

Why should this be? I guess its because they pay tax, but so do Scots south of the border and the rest of the UK and we are denied a say. It's odd. DD
Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
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Comments

  • Megrose489
    Megrose489 Member Posts: 745
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I agree, DD. I'm Scots born and would like to vote. Both of my sons, who are English born, but live in Scotland, are eligible.

    Meg
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I think a due period of residency has always been a condition of voting and it seems fair enough to me though, in this specific case, I think a case (not necessarily a strong one) could be made for the rest of the currently United Kingdom to have a say in whether or not they would like Scotland to remain as part of it.

    Like so many things, it all revolves mainly around money. One of our sons and his family live in Scotland and have a house there. They are very worried about the value of their house, not to mention their pensions, plummeting with all the ongoing financial insecurities of a 'Yes' vote. Wherever possible they support local businesses rather than international firms and they contribute also to Scotland in their voluntary work. Our other son lives in USA and pays his taxes there.. Neither I nor he see any reason why he, or other ex-pats, should have a say in our own political scene.

    I think many Scots will be voting 'Yes' out of hope and optimism. I can see their point. I have mused recently about resurrecting the ancient kingdom of Northumbria :idea: Certainly, I believe, if there's a 'No' vote, with all the promises currently being laid down as bribes, many other areas of the UK, not just Wales and N. Ireland, will be demanding more autonomy. A federal 'UK' could result and who knows if that would be good or bad for us all?
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • LignumVitae
    LignumVitae Member Posts: 1,972
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I thought the situation and desire for a yes vote was nicely summed up by the BBC news site's top ten stories - the historical and potentially ground breaking referendum was second to...a story about the ten worst lifts in London :shock: .
    I do think there has been a complacency from politicians that the vote will result in the continuation of the union which can only play into the hands of the optimistic yes vote campaign. I guess the only sensible way of ensuring everybody who could be eligible to vote gets a chance would be to open the voting up to the entire UK...and then surely the focus has to become more general and towards a federal system which could have benefits and losses for all. I do believe that until investment and funding gets more geographical spread and there is more effort to push business and development out of the central ring there will be the kind of disquiet, and growing disquiet, that leads towards calls for changes to governance.
    Hey little fighter, things will get brighter
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I see the cavalry, represented by the formerly ridiculed Gordon Brown, has now been enlisted to offer Devo-Max – the option that Cameron initially refused to have on the ballot paper.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,557
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    If I was a 'floating voter' I would be nudged towards yes due to the very late - and emergency - visit from the White Hall Boys. Only eight days to go and they decide to head north for a visit. Now they care. :roll:

    I predict the vote will be yes and then, within five years, they'll be asking to be re-admitted because it's all too much and far too expensive. DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • mellman01
    mellman01 Member Posts: 5,303
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I'm starting to think the no campaign really want to lose the argument, they went on about Salmond not having a plan B but neither did they and to offer a unspecified bribe at the 11th hour coupled with a 9% pay rise for MP's is like pouring petrol on an already smouldering sporran if you ask me, now then regardless of what the outcome is all I ask is the nationalists shut the f**** up and live with the decision as I'm pig sick of their veiled racism against the English, they need to grow up and accept that we like everyone else around them has moved on while they are stuck in a time warp powered by narrow minded hatred.
  • frogmella
    frogmella Member Posts: 1,115
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Good rant Mellman01! :lol::lol:
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    As a Scot reminded me when I was up there a couple of weeks ago, patriotism is fuelled by love, nationalism by hatred.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • mellman01
    mellman01 Member Posts: 5,303
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Very true ST, I just hope if they do go it works for them I don't want to see us being blamed for it if things turn out bad, But that said the whole debate is just the symptom of a greater ill here and that's an outdated stale undemocratic political system, its not reflective of the diversity of these islands anymore in fact its designed to strangle any hint of change, look at UKIP it gets a good share of the vote but has no seats in the common's the door is kept firmly locked to them, to the 3 main parties its a game where if you mess up you simply hand the keys to the next lot and when they mess up the same happens its designed to reward incompetence were also lied to its not a democracy its a 2 and a half party dictatorship worthy of the Soviet union during the cold war, and its the main reason were in such dire finical straits, their view is its only tax payers money so throw a few more billions at it and so it goes, look at the pole tax if we had proportional representation then the Scot's might well have never had it trailed on them first place they might have also had more control over the oil revenue as well.
    The blame can't all be laid at the nationalists feet a lot must go to our political elite who have done nothing but stiff us all over the years and this I think is just the symptom of one to many stitch ups the Scots just have bigger b**s than the rest of us, remember the time when we wanted a vote for PR but those b****s in London stitched us up by removing PR from the ballot sheet and put second preference in its place along side first past the post and annoyingly people fell for it and voted for the same dam system we've had for hundreds of years, PR would have been incredible for us all it would have meant those at the top would have had to work for a living it would have also stopped b******s like Blair taking us to war on lies and false truths, where we go from here God only knows but in a way I can understand how Salmond and his kind feel I just feel sad they think were all the same as the politicians when were far from it, there's a lot of sympathy for them amongst the common folk I can assure you. Its the main reason people can't be a***d to vote these days there's little point but instead of the Politicians actually clocking no one likes them or the system they go on about forcing people to vote, typical of a dictatorship that I always thought in a democracy people had a right to abstain instead it looks like we could well be frog marched to the ballot box to vote for the next dictator regardless of if we want to or not.
  • Slosh
    Slosh Member Posts: 3,194
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    You only have to remember the queues of people waiting to vote in Afghanistan a few months ago to realise how lucky we are.
    As a woman I always remember the suffragettes and their fight, even though women only got the vote on the back of the First World War.
    Personally if you don't vote you have no right to complain about our government. I favour the Australian system where voting is compulsory.
    And don't get me started on UKIP!
    He did not say you will not be storm tossed, you will not be sore distressed, you will not be work weary. He said you will not be overcome.
    Julian of Norwich
  • mellman01
    mellman01 Member Posts: 5,303
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    UKIP like the Scottish referendum are only the by product of an out of date fixed 2 .5 party voting system, its odd how we've all had diversity forced on us yet the political system has stayed static, we've moved on it hasn't. As for UKIP Farage rants at the EU parliament are hilarious he's worth the entertainment value for that alone, he won't get in he's going to float around until the Tories bribe him to join them then he'll disappear I'd imagine.
  • Airwave!
    Airwave! Member Posts: 2,424
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I am English and I am not allowed in the say of what happens to my country, I cannot say if I want 25% of my country given to a few percent of its present native population.

    If this is good enough for them then I say 'Dorset for Independance!'

    This is a fair and equal land, is it not?
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Airwave, you are allowed a say i what happens to your country but Scotland isn't our country, only part of the United Kingdom of four different countries.

    Seriously, I think devo-max if the likeliest solution now and, if that happens, we will get lots more sections of the UK wanting more regional power - starting with Yorkshire :wink:
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • theresak
    theresak Member Posts: 1,998
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    We wanted it in the NE too, but it never happened. My hubby, being a proud Northumbrian, still thinks Northumberland should be a separate kingdom,together with all the trappings that would entail.
  • daffy2
    daffy2 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    I tend towards sticky's devo-max view and to that end think that perhaps it's time for Westminster(of whatever flavour is in this month) to start actually practising decentralisation instead of just talking about it, which might go some way towards addressing the English regions' disaffections as well.
    My sister in Scotland is trying to decide which way to vote, and struggling. As she says, they are so far away from any seat of power many folks think that it probably won't make much difference to them, especially as their system of Community Councils means that they are largely running their own affairs anyway.
    I'm glad I don't have to vote - having to make such a decision in the face of a complete lack of facts goes against all my instincts - they don't even know what their currency would be for heavens sake.
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    daffy2 wrote:
    their system of Community Councils means that they are largely running their own affairs anyway.

    They are but you wouldn't think so to hear A Salmond and co talking.

    Westminster are becoming nauseating in their abject crawling.

    I foresee trouble from the rest of the UK if, following a NO vote, Scotland is given even more money.
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • theresak
    theresak Member Posts: 1,998
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Quite agree. I`m fed up of Alex Salmond - he thinks he`s a modern-day version of William Wallace.

    A close friend of mine has a daughter working at Westminster, and apparently he signs all his letters "Yours for Scotland."
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Shetland says if there's a YES victory it might not stay part of Scotland :o
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright
  • theresak
    theresak Member Posts: 1,998
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Shetlanders don't have a particularly strong affinity with mainland Scotland, apparently, so not surprising they might not stay part of Scotland.

    Where will it end?
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,557
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    It's ended. What now for Alex 'Big Brown Soppy Eyes' Salmond?

    The turnout was remarkable so hats off to all Scots who voted for making the effort. Now we will give them more powers (and no doubt more money) so they can pretend to be an independent country but safe and secure that Westminster will pay the bills. I bet I won't get free prescriptions when I hit the right age and that Mr DD and me will have to fund our care when we're old. Maybe it's time to move . . . . . :wink: DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • marrianne
    marrianne Member Posts: 1,161
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Was feeling pleased about the result :) DD you got me a bit sceptical now so it could be case of cake and eat it ,yes Cameron is makeing all sorts of promises time will tell :roll:
  • dreamdaisy
    dreamdaisy Member Posts: 31,557
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    DC made promises to appease those who could not make up their minds - now I guess he will have to make good (or the next Government will) for there will be hell to pay if we don't. The innocence and naivety of the Yes campaign was frightening - you cannot sustain a country on dreams and low income so now they have the best of both worlds, more independence and still being funded.

    Quite where this leaves Wales, NI and England I don't know. It's a curious situation. DD
    Have you got the despatches? No, I always walk like this. Eddie Braben
  • ichabod6
    ichabod6 Member Posts: 963
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Why kingdom?
    Since 1953 the head of state has been a female entitled queen.The highest judges sit in the queens bench division and some people regularly ask God to save our queen. Should it not be united queendom?
  • Slosh
    Slosh Member Posts: 3,194
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    In England we had no vote. However there will be changes made to how we are governed as a result of what Scotland voted.
    So Scotland are now influencing England but we don't even get to have a say in the matter. Some of the changes may be good but it seems unjust that the English have no say.
    He did not say you will not be storm tossed, you will not be sore distressed, you will not be work weary. He said you will not be overcome.
    Julian of Norwich
  • stickywicket
    stickywicket Member Posts: 26,325
    edited 30. Nov -1, 00:00
    Not so much as a result of how Scotland voted but as a result of the desperate last-minute promises made to keep them on board / keep Cameron from being remembered as The PM Who Lost Scotland.

    The West Lothian question rears its head again and, as for a more federal UK, NI don't want more powers as they accept they struggle to agree on what they've got.

    Scotland has set its own NHS budget for years and the Scottish NHS is hugely in debt so better not retire there, DD :wink:
    If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
    Steven Wright